Page 2 | So disappointed in year 3 son

KimDeals · 11/09/2021 07:15

Sorry - just to add - OP don’t be disappointed in your son! It’s so hard for them to see what is going on. It’s not easy being 7! My 6yo DS would sleepwalk in this situation too, I’m sure!

QueenoftheFarts · 11/09/2021 07:16

Don't go nuclear. I did this to my son once after a parent told me he had done some awful thi lngs to her son. I made him read bullying sites, confiscated his technology and then marched him into school to let them know I would be fully supporting any investigation and subsequent punishment. He started by saying he didn't remember the behaviours and in the end just started apologising. The school were shocked and launched an investigation. None of it had happened. In fact one incident that had been described... a teacher had been sat next to them and her version was that the other kid was the one being difficult. I felt awful for my son because he had collapsed into simply apologising because I was so forceful in my rage. The school said he was very gentle. I felt sorry for the other kid, he obviously needed some attention, but I was angry at the other mother as well, when my son withdrew from her lad (obviously), she carried on making accusations in the face of lots of other witnesses saying "that simply didn't happen".... so from my tough lesson, I would counsel you to work carefully with your son, and if he doesn't want to friends, just help him out with what those boundaries will look and feel like in the playground. Not wanting to be friends is not bullying!

PurpleOkapi · 11/09/2021 07:22

It sometimes seems like any attempt to assert normal and healthy boundaries (e.g., "No, I don't want to play with you, because I don't like you, because you were mean to me last time") is considered bullying. That's a very unhealthy dynamic, and it sets the child up for dysfunctional relationships later in life.

KimDeals · 11/09/2021 07:35

@PurpleOkapi

It sometimes seems like any attempt to assert normal and healthy boundaries (e.g., "No, I don't want to play with you, because I don't like you, because you were mean to me last time") is considered bullying. That's a very unhealthy dynamic, and it sets the child up for dysfunctional relationships later in life.

That’s very true, but it’s not what the OP described.

The boy is being chased and sometimes being excluded and the OPs son thinks the kid likes it.

The father of that child probably thought it was the right thing to do to bring it up and maybe it was - but he should also tell the school because the school need to calm the situation down on the playground.

Wineandroses3 · 11/09/2021 07:38

Typical mumsnet: focusing all the “outrage” at OP because she used the word “nuclear” yet failing to offer anything remotely helpful in terms of advise, always the way! 🥱 OP if it was me I would find out from school more details about what is going on, do that before you talk to you son then act accordingly.

alphabetspagetti · 11/09/2021 07:40

It was its the beginning of Yr3 that I finally listened to my son and put in some boundaries so that he no longer had to play with the boy who punched him, called him names & belittled him. It has made life awkward in many ways as they live around the corner from us, there were few boys in the class so he remains on the margin of the group and DS did still come across him. There have also been times that DS was in tears about not being friends any more as the boy concerned had amazing birthday parties and a playdate would involve a trip out somewhere which all the other boys who claimed to dislike this boy would happily go along to whilst moaning about him the rest of the time but DS was so much happier to be believed and supported and not made to do something which he considered to wrong.

PurpleOkapi · 11/09/2021 07:59

The boy is being chased and sometimes being excluded and the OPs son thinks the kid likes it.

I agree that the chasing should stop if the boy doesn't want it, but I'm curious how it keeps happening without some voluntary participation on his end. Where are they chasing him to, and why isn't he just running towards a teacher if he wants them to stop?

The exclusion, though, is exactly what I just said. They're excluding him because they don't want to play with him. They seem to have good reasons for that, and even if they didn't, they shouldn't be forced. You know all those posters on here who've gotten themselves into ridiculous situations because they let others walk all over them, because they believe hurting someone's feelings or saying "no" is a hanging offence? This is how that happens.

KimDeals · 11/09/2021 08:04

@PurpleOkapi

The boy is being chased and sometimes being excluded and the OPs son thinks the kid likes it.

I agree that the chasing should stop if the boy doesn't want it, but I'm curious how it keeps happening without some voluntary participation on his end. Where are they chasing him to, and why isn't he just running towards a teacher if he wants them to stop?

The exclusion, though, is exactly what I just said. They're excluding him because they don't want to play with him. They seem to have good reasons for that, and even if they didn't, they shouldn't be forced. You know all those posters on here who've gotten themselves into ridiculous situations because they let others walk all over them, because they believe hurting someone's feelings or saying "no" is a hanging offence? This is how that happens.

We don’t know that though with regard to them excluding because they are asserting boundaries? There’s nothing in the posts that say they are trying to avoid him. They might be doing it simply because they naively think it’s just a game. But the boy must be upset if the father raised it. Any why he doesn’t / can’t stop it by running to a teacher etc - maybe his personality - maybe because he’s also only 7, who knows.

toolazytothinkofausername · 11/09/2021 08:10

I wish I could give your son a big hug. He has done nothing wrong. You are forcing him to be friends with a boy he doesn't want to be friends with. From all you've said you sound like a bit of a mean mummy.

Instead of lecturing your innocent son, I would express your concerns to the class teacher who can then get the school SENCO to provide social support to the other boy.

AtrociousCircumstance · 11/09/2021 08:13

Your very little son has done nothing wrong. I’m astonished you think a child that small should have absorbed, and be able to apply, quite adult reasoning.

Use this as a learning experience for him - and for you. Do not force him to be friends with anyone, talk to him about how to handle this kind of situation.

Summersnake · 11/09/2021 08:22

Your much better speaking to the school ,rather than the parent .neither of you can control what goes on in school hours ,so let the teachers sort it out

MoreAloneTime · 11/09/2021 08:22

Agree, you need school to be that neutral third party besides anything else.

MargaretThursday · 11/09/2021 09:19

I would add a note of caution here.
Op says:
One of the group is always pulled out as the "baddie" in games etc. He can be a bit tricky and has been known to kick and push and I think this has led to this dynamic.

"Has been known" is not the same as always being violent, which seems to be what posters are assuming.

And that age, especially boys, are not unknown to deliberately provoke a child that they know may end up lashing out and getting into trouble.

I've seen it a few times over the years, and often the gang all joins together to say with wide open eyes "miss, he pushed him", when not including the fact that they'd been winding him up all lunchtime with taunts and small pushes etc. It's very difficult for a teacher to pick up because they have several children's stories against one. Even if the one says "but they pushed me first" they've then got the group saying "it was an accident" or "no he didn't".

With this addition of chasing him (if he's been violent towards them and they just don't want to play with him, then I wouldn't expect them to be doing this-aren't they then worried he'll lash out at them?) I would wonder if this is the continuing of the above happening.

OldChinaJug · 11/09/2021 10:12

The exclusion, though, is exactly what I just said. They're excluding him because they don't want to play with him. They seem to have good reasons for that, and even if they didn't, they shouldn't be forced. You know all those posters on here who've gotten themselves into ridiculous situations because they let others walk all over them, because they believe hurting someone's feelings or saying "no" is a hanging offence? This is how that happens.

I completely agree with this.

I find it baffling that the 'be kind' message we often see in school completely denies children boundaries.

I refused to teach a PSHE lesson once using a 'good friend' matrix once because, from memory, at least 3 of the items on it required children to override their own boundaries.

TheWoleb · 11/09/2021 10:21

So by going nuclear you meant enforcing your rules around boundaries and bullying.

Your 7 year old son has set boundaries with a bully who has been pushing, kicking, punching him for months. And you want to tell your son off? What is wrong with you?

That kid is a violent bully. He needs help and support, but that needs to come from the adults. It is not up to the other children (your son included) to play with someone who beats them up just because you want him to "be kind".

Being excluded by other kids is the consequence that bully needs to face. He will get help and support from the adults, but you absolutely cannot go nuclear at your son for setting his own boundary against a violent kid in his class.

You can punish him for chasing the boy around. That's a totally different thing. He simply needs t ignore the kid. Walk away from him. Not play with him. But he cannot chase him or taunt him.

toolazytothinkofausername · 11/09/2021 10:50

Please stop going nuclear. For any reason.

If your son feels he can't come to you with the small issues, as he gets older he definitely won't come to you for the big issues.

Next time you want to talk to your son, make both of you a nice cup of cocoa and have a relaxed chat.

Be more mum, less Karen.

TheWoleb · 11/09/2021 11:11

@toolazytothinkofausername

Please take your misogynistic slurs somewhere else. Jesus christ.

Original poster

littlehouseonthepraire · 11/09/2021 19:52

I've bowed out of this thread because people seem to wantonly misrepresent what I've said.

I've already clarified what I meant by "going nuclear". I'm a kind parent, although tbf non of you are to know that.

However, I can't for one more see how you can interpret "the boy is known to occasionally hit" as "my son is being systematically bullied by this child and has been for months". People really do want to see the worst in others. Hardly anyone has asked any further questions about the situation in order to get a clearer picture, but instead just jumped to completely unreasonable and inaccurate conclusions.

Thanks to everyone who has made helpful suggestions.

OP posts:

KimDeals · 11/09/2021 21:21

@littlehouseonthepraire

I've bowed out of this thread because people seem to wantonly misrepresent what I've said.

I've already clarified what I meant by "going nuclear". I'm a kind parent, although tbf non of you are to know that.

However, I can't for one more see how you can interpret "the boy is known to occasionally hit" as "my son is being systematically bullied by this child and has been for months". People really do want to see the worst in others. Hardly anyone has asked any further questions about the situation in order to get a clearer picture, but instead just jumped to completely unreasonable and inaccurate conclusions.

Thanks to everyone who has made helpful suggestions.

I know. This is one of those mental threads. I knew what you meant by going nuclear, you were just saying you were frustrated. I never doubted you were a kind mum! This thread has been really bizarre. Hope you’re ok OP. What way are thinking about handling it? (the school/boy situ, not that thread!)

PurpleOkapi · 11/09/2021 22:07

If someone hit me "occasionally," I wouldn't be inclined to keep giving them more chances. I don't understand why some think it's ok to force children to do that, or to manipulate them into "voluntarily" doing so when they'd rather not.

minipie · 11/09/2021 22:22

The OP hasn’t said anything about forcing her son to be friends with the original boy! She’s just said she doesn’t want him picking on the boy - chasing him, saying mean stuff.