Help from Muslim MN please

[flowerpootle]

My new work friend and her husband and kids are coming for lunch at mine next week. They are Muslim. Obviously I won't serve alcohol or non halal meat but, any catering advice in terms of things to avoid? Also I hug her on greeting (outside of office) but should I not hug her DH / should my DH not give a kiss to her on greeting? (We are not English and we are usually fairly tactile). Sorry for this lack of sophistication but I'd rather ask than cause embarrassment or serve food they can't enjoy.

Very much depends on their background

Play it safe just say hi welcome and great her as you usually do don’t make to much of a thing about treating someone differently

Many Muslims do kiss on the check with people they know men and women

I don’t know any Muslims personally (have family who are and ex husband) that would be upset by a dog just keep it away from the dinner table (which is polite with visitors anyway)

Yes vinegar/foods containing wine/cider are prohibited

Have you decided on a pudding?

This is my cheesecake recipe, very nicely typed because I have c and p from the email I sent to a couple of Muslim colleagues.

Cheesecake

Ingredients

1 200g tub Philadelphia cheese (or supermarket own brand cream cheese, or mascarpone for a special occasion)

1 small tub (75 ml) double cream

½ packet digestive biscuits

½ pack butter

75g caster sugar (can use any sugar for taste but caster is smoother)

Flavouring – fruit syrup, lemon juice, cocoa powder, or pureed fruit

Utensils

Mixing bowl and whisk or a food processor

Loose bottom baking tin (use a cake liner as well if you have one)

Plastic bag (freezer bags are good) and rolling pin

Microwavable bowl or small pan

1 desert spoon

Method

Put the biscuits in the bag and bash with the rolling pin until they are crumbs, put these in the tin. Melt the butter and pour over the crumb and then use the spoon to press the base in to the tin.

Put the cream in the bowl and whisk until stiff.

Add the sugar and cream cheese. You could also use artificial sweetener.

Add any flavouring and mix until you get a smooth mixture.

Pour (actually it is more of a dollop) on to the base and put in the fridge overnight

I grew up in a Muslim country and my parents had lots of local friends. We rarely touched when we met them for dinner or whatever - especially if we were greeting the husband of the couple (and these were the more liberal locals going out for dinner with westerners, the country was quite conservative tho). I’ve also worked in Muslim countries and many men won’t even like a handshake so I used to smile and nod my head a bit. But just ask your friend what’s acceptable for them!

@TractorAndHeadphones

I’m from a Muslim country, not Muslim but raised by. Bear in mind that while the below is in keeping with Islamic principles not all Muslims follow every precept. your best bet is to ask your friend herself. No pork, and if you have dogs keep them away (it’s forbidden to touch one unless under specific circumstances). Strictly speaking there’s to be no touching between unrelated members of the same sex.

Please can I naively ask for more details of the no dog or not touching dog rules please?

Not all Muslims observe the dog thing btw. You would wash before praying anyway regardless of whether you’ve touched a dog or not.

Agree no physical greetings with the opposite sex unless they initiate. Vegetarian or fish, no alcohol. Have a lovely lunch.

I didn't know about the dog thing.

Personally I'd stick to vegetarian. Having said that, some supermarkets do carry a halal range - so maybe look at that?

I'd try and ask her outright. Or just run the menu past her.

Ive never heard of it being fobidden to touch dog. My husband is from an islamic country and his family owned a guard dog. The dog was well trained and never entered the home or came close to family members. The saliva of a dog is considered unclean. So anything the saliva comes in contact with would needs to be cleaned. People who offer daily prayer like to keep their clothes clean and therefore avoid coming into contact with a dog or anything that would have dog saliva on it.

Do Muslims have to avoid cats as well?

I suppose some do... but my family have had cats (and dogs).

But the dog thing - same think as ‘but they lick their bum then kick your face - yuk’, so no kissies. But I have seen people from other parts of the ME have absolute fits of a dog comes anywhere near them in the park (proper shouty rows with dog owners).

I remember speaking to a convert (husband from N Africa) who told me how terrible dogs were. How they ‘weren’t allowed’ in Islam and how she had made her mum get rid of her (the mums) dog when the daughter converted and married. She was a bit full on though - only face showing and didn’t want her children to go to school as they wouldn’t learn ‘the right things’.

So I guess it’s a bit of a scale...

“…… and if you have dogs keep them away (it’s forbidden to touch one unless under specific circumstances).”

How interesting, had never heard this. Every day’s a school day

Actually my cousins have just bought a dog. Lots of photos of the pup being cuddled by ‘grandma’ a visit before she hopped on a plane back to the ME. She used to keep poodles (or something else small and fluffy).

I live in a Muslim country and know Muslims who keep dogs, work for animal rescue charities, are vets etc. It's a scale. It's the dog saliva which is supposed to be impure but you can purify yourself with samak soap if you touch a dog.

Apple cider vinegar is halal (and very well used throughout the ME)

Actually - my religious bil uses apple cider vinegar.

I live on the coast and we have lots of Muslim visitors. I notice they actively avoid my dog even though the children think he is cute . I just assumed they were scared of dogs but didn’t understand the religious significance. Thank you for explaining.

It's not forbidden to touch a dog, it just renders you unclean for prayer so people will avoid it as its easier. Dogs are not kept merely for pets (in the Western sense), but can be kept for hunting, guarding property etc but they wouldn't enter the house. I saw a recent fatwa (religious ruling) that an assistance dog (for blind, deaf etc) can be brought into the house if the person is alone and there is no alternative.
Re the cider/wine vinegars. Some people think it's forbidden because they derive from alcohol, but technically they are halal because after distillation the alcohol has been removed. Just ask your friend what she thinks.

I normally place my right hand over my heart as a non contact greeting with Muslim people. If in doubt just ask!

Fresh fruit is appreciated as a dessert or end of meal thing.

I know some Palestinians (in the UK) who were delighted to know I had cooked halal food (lamb guvec stew) and that it had been cooked in a pan untouched by pork.
(Just happened to be a new pan). They appreciated the gesture as hadn't felt safe to eat any unidentified non vegetarian dishes at a potluck dinner.

I would ask them. One of my friends is Muslim but loves pork and wine, her dog is like a child to her. As pp said, there are different ways to practice a certain religion and some people are more following certain rules then others. Ask don’t assume.

@RampantIvy No

For goodness sake, dogs are not haram. It's just dogs are unclean and they sit on the carpet where Muslims obviously pray. We can have dogs as guard dogs, companion etc but they have to live outside in a doggy house and it's great to be able to have animals outside and not cooped up in the house. My dog Ben loves the garden and charging around. We keep the garden separate though for the kids. Don't want them running through his mess... . We still have to be kind to them. Our holy book tells us to treat animals with kindness and treat them with kindness equal to humans

Op, there should definitely not be any kind if physical contact between the opposite sexes. You don't need to touch her man. Your man can shake her man's hand. But with covid, don't think he should anyway.
Provide a nice dish either halal or fish and just enjoy their company.
Am so happy you have an open mind towards Muslims. Most people hate my guts. I am revert and am white British. When I reverted I lost a lot of friends but then again, I just say they weren't real friends in the first place.
Have a great evening

@LaBellina

I would ask them. One of my friends is Muslim but loves pork and wine, her dog is like a child to her. As pp said, there are different ways to practice a certain religion and some people are more following certain rules then others. Ask don’t assume.

You do need to try and observe the main rules to be a Muslim. Knowingly drinking alcohol and eating haram and thinking little of doing so takes you out of the fold of Islam.

I am not the religion police so I don’t see it as my job to judge other people if they are a real Muslim/ Catholic/ whatever. My friend grew up in a Muslim country and still considers herself a Muslim. That’s between her and Allah not for you or me to judge.

I know some Palestinians (in the UK) who were delighted to know I had cooked halal food (lamb guvec stew) and that it had been cooked in a pan untouched by pork.

I remember watching a documentary about Tiger Bay the mish mash of people who made it their own.

A coupe of people who had fathers from the ME said their mother kept a frying pan for bacon in its own cupboard, occasionally their dad would open the cupboard and swear at the pan in Arabic.

I think the vast majority of people are just people, they appreciate any effort and are more interested in friendship and family that what other people eat.