Equal pay issue?

[Equalpayquery]

Morning all, not having much luck over on the quieter parts of the site so thought I would put here:

We are recruiting another staff member at work, to do an identical job to mine (same salary scale, same job description and person spec). We are going to second interviews, with all male candidates. Great candidates and I’d be happy to work with all of them. But here’s the rub, it’s highly likely they will be brought in on a higher salary than me, say 10%, mostly because I came from public sector and these guys are coming from private sector and already earn more. Just wondering whether the equal pay section of the equalities act kicks in or not. All over the company men and women are paid differently based on experience, but arguably it’s a niche role, I originated it, and currently I’m the only person who can perform it to the letter (those coming in have highly relevant skills, but will have areas to develop). I don’t want to rock the boat if there is no case, but at the same time if there is a legal issue I don’t want to just say nothing. Thoughts from people in the know appreciated!!

To clarify - I am currently the only person in the organisation doing this particular role, it was a new role for me 18 months ago, and I have defined it beyond what was outlined on paper. I have been successful and now workload is so high we need another person.

So you are the benchmark in the organisation for experience in that role - how could someone new coming in, without more relevant experience than you be paid 10% more than you "based on experience"?

I'm not sure that it's sex discrimination, unless you think there's a reason why all the candidates are male, but surely a cast iron reason for you to ask for a pay rise if the incoming candidate sets the entry level bar for the role at 10% above your salary?

Otherwise you should be looking to move on and get a higher salary elsewhere.

Thanks - yeah I’m trying to get my head around it. All of the candidates are male because they are the ones who have interviewed better than the competition (I am on the panel). I agree so far with the recruitment and would be happy to recruit any of the options open.

They are all older than me, and so have had longer careers, but they don’t necessarily have better experience for this role. Different experience, but they are not better qualified than I am for the role in question iyswim.

I think I want to just gently enquire whether there is a equal pay issue.

But ultimately you’re right, if they won’t pay it’s the start of looking elsewhere perhaps.

I’m querying sex discrimination because the equality act focuses on men and women having equal pay for the same work.

I can only speak for the NHS as I work there. Under Agenda for Change, people are normally appointed at the bottom of the pay scale. However, some people are put higher, eg my sister. However, this was because she had been working as a locum in her field (speech and language therapist) I would forget the fact they’re male and try to be objective. Get advice from HR if required.

You don't have accuse your company of discrimination. You can just ask for a pay rise to keep you in line with responsibilities of the role. If they refuse, that's when you have a problem. At the moment, it is just paying what they need to attract someone new so not discrimination.

Yeah - they don’t do pay rises like that.

@Equalpayquery

Yeah - they don’t do pay rises like that.

Well they are going to have to from now on if they employ a man to do the identical job as you but pay him a lot more.

Equal pay legislation is about protecting people from being paid less on the basis of their sex. From what you say, it’s not about sex, but rather market forces. The fact that they are male doesn’t automatically make it an equal pay issue. You can certainly ask for a pay rise.

So new people invariably are paid more than the people they work alongside who have more experience?

This probably is indirect sex discrimination as I believe men are more likely to move jobs more often (and ask for more at interview), whereas women are more likely to stay loyal to a company if they find a role that works for them.

Get advice from HR if required.

Get advice from your union or ACAS. HR represent the employer's interests.

It would only be direct sex discrimination if they are being paid more because they are male. I think the link to indirect sex discrimination is really tenuous. But even so, I think bringing it up in this way will sour your relationship with your employer.

I think you do have a case for arguing for a pay rise though and would approach it from the basis that the recent recruitment activity shows that your market worth is higher, and you already have experience of the organisation which an incoming candidate does not have.

Thanks for comments. My main issue is that I don’t really want to be paid less than someone else (man or woman) for the same job, especially as I will have to train them up.

So pointers on how best to go about it are appreciated and I am listening.

Even though you say latrines don't work like that at your place you have the conversation at least. You say that you are senior enough to help make the decision as to which person is recruited and it doesn't sit right that they will be paid more to do the same job. Put the ball in their court.

weirdest autocorrect ever

latrines don't = that it doesn't!

I think you just need to start by asking, point out that the market pay for your skills and role appears to have increased and you think a raise of £xxk is required to keep your pay in line with the market.

I wouldn’t start off with a complaint, merely a request / polite, reasoned demand for a rise.

Do you know how much more they are likely to offer the successful candidate? You need to then make the case for why you should get at least that if not more for the fact that you will be training them (and by default the more senior person in the position). You can almost ignore the fact that they are men but you need to use the fact that the role is there because of you and that you will be training them to get the pay increase you deserve.

@Equalpayquery

I’m querying sex discrimination because the equality act focuses on men and women having equal pay for the same work.

Will you be training them and be their supervisor?

I'd kick up a stink about this.

Initial training and on-boarding, but no line-management. We probably have different underlying skill sets, but work will be the same, and value of work to business will be the same. I have massively outperformed since arriving, hence new person.

I have a good relationship with my boss, and like my employer generally. I think this will be more of an oversight than a deliberate slight. But I do need to say something.

There was a thread similar to this in Employment Issues. The OP got a pay rise in the end - but was still paid less than her new male colleagues who were being paid 65% more than her original salary and she was responsible for training them. She seemed content about her pay rise

@peppermintbiscuit I would go to tribunal over that kind of difference I think.

The OP got a raise but still not as much, or more importantly, an increase on what the men were earning. She was training them so should have been on more.

That’s sickening. And all too believable

Why are you talking about ‘gently raising it’ or ‘querying’ it? I can absolutely guarantee that a man would not approach the situation like that.
You need to be straightforward and direct - I notice that the new recruit will be paid x amount which is x amount more than I am currently paid. This is obviously unacceptable, how do you propose to resolve the situation?

I guess because I know more about how these conversations usually go with my employer. My pay scale has a whole £10k band within which you are deemed to be being paid the ‘market rate’. I’m a little way above the bottom, and the advertised pay was not to the top, but I’m guessing they are likely to be paid 10% pa more, but could be as much as 15% more with senior leadership discretion. All remaining candidates will be taking a pay cut to join (but will have better work life balance). I don’t want to piss everyone off, but I do want to be treated fairly.

And I guess I’m already a flight risk, so there are other irons in the fire to keep me, but not financial. They’ve been clear in the past that isn’t an option open to them.