UK has lost 83% of its department stores?

[NotSure1542]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58331168 interesting article. As someone who is a massive fan of John Lewis - I would hate for them ot go bust! What do you think the reason behind this is?

I shopped a lot at Debenhams in my 20s when I needed work clothes and wedding outfits. That fizzled in my 30s, over 5 years ago. Other than sportswear, I only buy clothes in person but the reality is that I tend to end up buying basics in supermarkets. It must be about 3 years since I went to town to buy an outfit. With all the restrictions of the past year, I managed to swerve the big shopping centre in town from July 2020 to Aug 2021... it was no hardship to me as there was no need to buy anything because I haven't been doing anything with my life to need new stuff. The only shop I've been to has been a small children's shoe shop on a back street, partly because it was necessary and partly because they offer a good customer experience and know their stock. (I agree on staff only knowing their concession)

Sizing is definitely an issue and poor stock control is a factor. I want to try clothes on and vet them in store, but that only works if the stock is there. For the DC's uniform updates, it's easier to do a big batch online than get half of what you need in store.

The other frustration of 21st century High Street large stores is if you do actually find something to purchase, going through the ordeal of finding somewhere to pay for the thing!

I want to shop on the High Street, but I havd little need to and chain stores are missing their USP of offering a positive customer experience compared to buying online.

"Lets go to Birmingham" was DM's code for "lets spend 3 hours+ in Rackhams"

You don't get toy departments like that anymore!

Department stores used to be one of the very few places you can buy everyday household goods in a city centre if you don't have a car to get to retail parks or IKEA. Stuff like a kettle, lamp, electric blanket, frying pan, pillow, storage boxes etc. These are the exact things that Amazon is perfect for now since you don't really care about brand. Amazon reviews are also a fairly good judge on quality and you get it delivered to your door instead of trying to carry a coffee machine onto the bus.

As a student in London I bought so many things from JL because it was the only option available. Nowadays there is much more competition from Primark Home, H&M Home and those scandi discount stores Flying Tiger, HEMA, Sostrene Green etc. That's not even to mention the convenience of Amazon or the unbeatable cheapness of Aliexpress/Wish.

Department stores ARE great for trying on clothes from many different brands however you need to be in the time and mood for it. I think the feeling is that concessions always carry a smaller selection of stuff than the flagship store or ordering online. I also feel they might have suffered from people trying on clothes for free and then going to order the actual items online in the correct sizes from the brand website rather than the department store website.

I don't think they are sustainable because people seem to prefer online. For myself I tend to buy clothes online direct (Toast, Monsoon, Next etc) I can then try on at home and easily send back what I don't want for a refund. Dept. stores also seem overpriced, I recently bought 3 Sara Miller items online for 19.99, I happened to see them in our local dept. store at 25.99 each. That's a bonkers mark up. Add to that parking charges, snooty shop assistants, lack of changing rooms and that fact it takes longer to visit shops than it does to do a web search and there are a lot of factors against them. If they are to continue they need a total rethink and to really step up their game.

John Lewis has closed down at Birmingham New Street/Grand Central, Debenhams have closed down in the neighbouring Bullring, both have left gaping holes in the centres they were part of.

Grand Central has also lost Pylones (I loved that store), TM Lewins, Foyles, TH Baker, Cath Kidston and a slew of other stores - what was once a fairly prestigious, 'destination' has a nail bar, Tesco Express, Clintons, Paperchase a series of clothing and accessories shops having permanent sales, Carluccio's and a rotating collection of fast food outlets.

Some have closed down unprofitable stores, but many have gone forever.

Wolverhampton is similar. The main shopping centre is abysmal.

We have Frasers (effectively Sports Direct Deluxe) where the old Debenhams was (Debenhams barely lasted three years and you can still see old signs for it around the outside of the remodelled centre), Costa, B&M, Wilko's, an opticians, HMV and a few pound stores.

IT is awful.

The fewer reasons there are for people to travel to the city centre, there fewer shops will stay open.

The old House of Fraser (formerly a fondly remembered department store called Beatties) is going to be a block of flats soon.

Changing shopping patterns with internet shopping, historic reliance on home furnishing concessions such as white goods, carpets, electricals, furniture which moved to out of town warehouse developments or went bust, over large town centre stores which struggled to be profitable and had long leases (or retailer owned freehold) especially since rise of destination shopping centres in 1990s.

I’ve no idea how so many people seem perfectly content either wearing ill-fitting clothes or endlessly repacking and returning all the multiple sizes they’ve ordered online. But clearly the majority are!

Welcome to the world of being tall. Very few shops have any of their tall range in store (unlike there usually being a petite section in most shops). Or they have a very tiny selection. I spend my life buying stuff and sending it back as I simply can't shop in store.

Nowordforfluffy, yes shopping for tall people is a bloody nightmare.

3 parcels sitting awaiting return as not long enough. You get a choice of black black or black. With blue thrown in for jeans.

If the shopping posts on MN are anything to go by, it seems that a lot of online shoppers see actual shopping as a moral failing.

I much prefer buying clothes in real shops. I want to see, feel and try clothes on. I also enjoy the instant gratification of buying something that fits rather than returning stuff.

And as for shoes, online shoe shopping is never going to work for me.

I used to think it was terrible, shopping online when you could go to the shops BUT since Covid it has been a joyless situation. No bloody seats to sit down on, queuing in pens like sheep etc. Finding that although they do bigger sizes, upwards of size 16 you have to order online.

I prefer to buy bras online because being a bigger size, the bigger sizes are on the bottom and I have to kneel down to look for the size. It is hard to get up again. I also have to look through all the viscose material to find something else. Too often the label is near the security tag so I look well dodgy! Apart from Primark (where I usually buy leggings and joggers) and my recent trip to Tesco, I have bought mainly online. Ditto make up as of course there are no testers around. I used to enjoy mooching around the shops. I was forever in Westfield, sitting reading my paper, sipping coffee in the coffee shops, but not know, it all seems too much effort! Poor old lady, I should just get a 'chums' catalogue!!!!!

Decades ago I was in an independent Department store in Essex (I think Colchester). The service was lovely. I have no idea if it is still there and cannot remember the name.

I have a blue light card, was in there at Christmas. Cashier said I couldn't use the discount card at the till but I could online 🤷‍♀️ guess what I did. Same thing in jd sports. It's almost as if they are trying to shut their stores and go online only. More profit.

In the early 90's I a did a presentation to a large retailer about this thing called the WWW and explained that people could buy things from the computer. The reaction was "people will never buy from a computer, they want our professional expertise and a shop on the high street"

Retail management may have lacked vision in the 90's but they were negligent not to see the threat by 2000. I doubt many of them had Amazon accounts in the 90's, I remember ordering books and CDs from my computer and think how cool it was in '97.

The high street has always been dynamic, and stores can only sell what people want to buy. I love the example that in the early days of the motor car, Boots used to sell Petrol, before those terrible new fangled "petrol stations" stole their business...

I went into a large London JL and had some great advice on jeans from the saleslady.
But she was stumped by the fact they were out of stock on 4 of 5 of the styles they recommended. She ended up recommending a brand they didn’t even sell 🤷‍♀️

I agree with a pp that the franchise model for clothes is unhelpful. The one USP that department stores have is that they stock lots of brands so you can browse through loads at once rather than going to separate shops. It would make so much more use of this benefit if they put all the T shirts, all the jumpers, all the jeans, all the swimwear together rather than making customers traipse from franchise to franchise which is much like going from shop to shop. This would be a real selling point IMO.

I've pretty much given up trying to buy things in John Lewis.

John Lewis, never knowingly in stock"

I'm not bothered, I wouldn't have got round all of them anyway.

I love department stores especially JL.
I don't like buying clothes or shoes online. This is because the fit, the actual colour and material not matching the online version.

I only go to John Lewis at the local shopping centre once a year - for school shoes. My local one was surprisingly busy when I went yesterday when it normally seems empty. We have a big Waitrose at a retail park which is always busy.

My local Debenhams has gone but since it was very shabby and limited in products, calling it a department store would have been a bit of a joke.

M&S (is it a department store) is always heaving and much more polished compared to the Debenhams we had so I would assume it's very safe from closure. It suffers the classic problem of preferring people click and collect rather than hold stock in store though.

I think that department stores are a very old fashioned way to shop and I have no problem going to specialist shops eg electricals at Currys where they are more likely to have more choice as well as more competitive pricing. Parking at our city centre is expensive and rents have increased because of Covid so I wouldn't be surprised if our John Lewis ended up being scrapped eventually too.