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Original poster

NHS waiting times - the flip side

119 replies

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 12:53

Just reading how massive the NHS backlog is, how long people are waiting etc etc

I manage a waiting list of over 2000 patients for my service. I have 2 booking clerks under me and a team of admin staff. Any one of them will tell you the hardest part of treating a patient is getting them in in the first place.

We call patients and offer surgery dates and around 50% of the time they are turned down. The best one I’ve heard so far is that someone was “going out to lunch” that day. We have people phone up the day before surgery to say they’re going on holiday or to ask if they can come in the next week instead. We have at least 3 people just not turn up for surgery every week.

We can’t just call the next patient because they have to be swabbed and isolate for 3 days before surgery.

We can’t discharge because they DNA - once a consultant has said they need treatment it is very difficult to discharge without it.

We can discharge if they turn down 2 consecutive dates. But they will accept them and then just cancel the day before which doesn’t count as turning a date down.

It’s an absolute shit show

OP posts:

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 12:55

If every single one of our patients had accepted and turned up for surgery in the last 5 months our waiting list would be much much smaller

The frustration and cost of having an empty fully staffed theatre and bed with no patient is beyond a joke

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Vallmo47 · 17/08/2021 12:57

Incredibly frustrating that some people are doing this while others are absolutely desperate to be seen. What a shit show it all is. Are there no fines for people cancelling short notice, as you have stated very good reasons why appointment cannot be given to someone else currently? I think fines should always come into play if you don’t cancel in time.

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:00

No fines. We can discharge if they DNA their first appt but as soon as they’ve been seen and we’ve decided they need treatment our hands are tied

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UserStillatLarge · 17/08/2021 13:02

I totally agree how frustrating and appalling that it is that people are doing this. And how selfish of them. But even if people have to be tested and isolate for 3 days, can't you have people on standby each week? I bet plenty of people would jump at the chance. And, as per PP, cancellations have to be a week in advance and for good reason, or at the very least go down as a DNA.

Skybluepinkgiraffe · 17/08/2021 13:02

That is so frustrating!!

Fleurty · 17/08/2021 13:03

Well it is very difficult managing to get to appointments too. The NHS give no options on appointment times, 2 days a week I have to be at my office 1.5 hours away from the hospital and almost always get sent appointments in the middle of the day for those days.

How do you know the lunch wasn't with a friend who was visiting from Australia and they had a 1 day window to see them?

Totally agree people not turning up is unacceptable but people turning down appointment times because they can't make it is surely just a product of randomly assigning them a date/time without giving them any options? In this day and age people should be able to book appointments online from a selection so they can pick a date/time.

Hihellohi · 17/08/2021 13:05

You do realise other people have things going on that they might not just be able to rearrange everything with a day or thereabouts notice

This is the kind of attitude I hate about the NHS. Take whatever you get and be grateful because after all “it’s free”.
And someone may say well if treatment is required and patients can decline then they clearly don’t need it that much. But no mention that the patient was waiting so long anyway.

UserStillatLarge · 17/08/2021 13:08

You do realise other people have things going on that they might not just be able to rearrange everything with a day or thereabouts notice

Appointments for surgery do not generally come with a day's notice - they come weeks if not months in advance, which gives you plenty of time to organise your work commitments, put off your friend from Australia etc.

Souther · 17/08/2021 13:09

Yup.
I've done baby clinic this morning. I get three in a clinic. Only one turned up. The 2 that didnt had already missed an appointment. It's a half hour appointment. So an hour sat fiddling my thumbs. So already an hour of clinical time wasted for each of these babies. Then we'll have to book them in again costing another half hour.

When we have people ringing in for appointments that we dont have.

All the other babies will have their jabs delayed trying to these 2 babies in. So all together it will be 3 hours of clinical time wasted.

MountainDweller · 17/08/2021 13:10

Interesting to read this - I've had 8 surgeries under GA and have been desperate for them all! I'm in a private system though so luckily have had some say in the dates.

Do the patients have much notice? I can imagine arranging childcare at the last minute might be a headache, or they/their partner getting time off work. (A friend just had surgery and she had to have it in the summer holidays because she's a teacher and her school wouldn't give her the time off otherwise ).

Can't imagine turning down a date or cancelling on the day myself unless in exceptional circumstances such as the death of a partner or child or spending the previous night throwing up.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 17/08/2021 13:14

But what about those who’ve been delayed by Covid?

I had to change an appt because l was in the group who’s jab had been called forward. And of course the only time available was the time of the hospital appt.

I then had to cancel again as l was pinged the day before.

It’s been rescheduled for Monday, and I’ve been in contact with someone who’s had Covid.

So far I’ve isolated for total of 25 days😫. Im not sure why l even have to isolate if I’ve been double jabbed.

Purplewithred · 17/08/2021 13:15

I do think it's time the NHS examined this type of 'frustration' and learned from commercial organisations about how to manage their 'customers', time, appointments etc. It would save an awful lot of NHS time and money.

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:16

We do keep a standby list but people understandably get sick of waiting on it. Patients who organise childcare/time off work to isolate and they don’t get called. Once they’ve done that a few times they are reluctant to keep doing it (they have my full sympathy).

We’ve just had a cancel a patient who despite being told repeatedly not to eat or drink after midnight got up at 4am and had tea and toast 😡. Literally just cancelled in the last 10 mins. And the first thing he said was “when will you rebook me for” - I feel like saying AFTER EVERYONE BLOODY ELSE

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Watermelon221 · 17/08/2021 13:18

I completely agree.

We have less wasted appointments now that we are doing more telephone clinics but previously had so many cancellations on the day or people just not turning up. It was so frustrating and a massive waste.

People generally complain if they are discharged for not attending or say they’d not received the letter. They end up getting rebooked which pushes everyone else back, because complaints cause even more time wasting.

People would be shocked at the amount of wasted slots due to this, especially pre covid.

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:19

The requirement to isolate for 3 days before is very difficult. Without that we would have a lot less cancellations and empty theatres. But we have to admit patients under a green pathway.

There are many reasonable excuses that surgery is cancelled but for every reasonable one ie patient not fit, patient pinged etc there are 2 more unreasonable

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Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:20

Ah I love the “I didn’t get my appt letter” patients. They ALWAYS get the “we’re discharging you because you didn’t turn up” letter though

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ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 17/08/2021 13:20

I have to isolate for 10 days. 3 days would be a dream…

Givemebackmylilo · 17/08/2021 13:20

I was due minor surgery. Twice it got cancelled on my by the hospital on the morning of the surgery because they "couldn't find an anaesthetist"

Then they had the cheek to get pissed with me when I couldn't make the 3rd appointment they offered

It's not the staffs fault, but the entire system is fucked

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:22

I always personally phone patients if we have to cancel due to an emergency. Always. And I feel bloody terrible doing it

OP posts:

54321nought · 17/08/2021 13:22

I have had experience of being given a hospital appointment that I cannot attend, and having absolutely no way at all of contacting the hospital to tell them that, the phone lines are open for such a short time, and I can't get an answer, in spite of spending my whole lunch time on hold repeatedly.

I have also had to leave an appointment which was running 6 hours late, because of having to collect young children, and having no possible way of communicating that to hospital staff, in this case because the queue to talk to the receptionist was longer than I was capable of standing up for.

I have also been reprimanded for missing an appointment in the past, when I was contacted during the day, and told to come straight to the surgery, and even though I informed the receptionist that I was several hours away and would come as fast as I could, by the time I arrived I was not seen as I was "too late"

so I don't think it is always the patients fault that appointments are missed

I hav

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 17/08/2021 13:23

What about those people who receive notification of their appointment after the date? It’s not that unusual.

It doesn’t matter to me, but to others, the lack of flexibility makes life difficult. There are plenty of people who can’t take time off in the middle of the day, for example, so a more flexible system, with the facility to choose from a range of times would help. If you can book an optician appointment, or a dental appointment, why is it so much more difficult to book clinic ones. Is it that the computer systems don’t link?

I was referred for cataract surgery in January 2020. Even before the pandemic, the waiting list was about six months. Then it rose to two years. What are people supposed to do in the meantime?

NotMyCat · 17/08/2021 13:24

I had to wait to see someone as to whether I had spinal surgery or injections, it was fairly obvious as the herniation was so bad and I was desperate and agreed to take any cancellations
They rang me to say they had a consultant who "didn't usually deal with this but had a slot in 30 mins" and I managed to get in at that point I would have seen bloody anyone! So grateful I took a cancellation

BigWoollyJumpers · 17/08/2021 13:25

@PashaandMe

Just reading how massive the NHS backlog is, how long people are waiting etc etc

We can’t just call the next patient because they have to be swabbed and isolate for 3 days before surgery.

We can’t discharge because they DNA - once a consultant has said they need treatment it is very difficult to discharge without it.

We can discharge if they turn down 2 consecutive dates. But they will accept them and then just cancel the day before which doesn’t count as turning a date down.

It’s an absolute shit show

Do you offer just one date, or give alternative dates when you call? If you are just offering one date, I would not be surprised if 50% are turned down. However, once a date is accepted, that should constitute a contract, and if someone calls and cancels the day before, having accepted a surgery date, I would suggest they get sent to the back of the queue. Same if they just don't turn up.

I think the NHS needs to be more flexible in offering dates, and the patient needs to start taking responsibility for their actions. It works both ways.

Original poster

PashaandMe · 17/08/2021 13:28

We can’t allow people to book into clinics. Consultant clinic is 14 patients. All 14 of those patients will have been waiting months to be seen, get results or discuss treatment. Many of them elderly or very sick. We can’t open clinic bookings as a free for all. We balance them very finely with urgent patients, long waiters and then 2 routines. Split between face to face and telephone. We can’t see more patients because of social distancing. We can’t telephone more patients due to the speciality they overwhelmingly need to be seen and examined. We can’t make the clinics longer because a consultant session is 4 hours and 1 hr of that is admin.

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CorrBlimeyGG · 17/08/2021 13:28

Is that you Sajid? Anything to detract blame to the patients...

Interesting that you joined MN just to post this.

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