The "wellness" industry and chronic illness

[Leavesofautumn]

I just need to have a rant about this. It seems that the wellness industry is really for people who are already well in the first place. I have a chronic illness and I don't see how spending £50 on your bespoke, artisan vitamin supplements is going to make me feel any better.

Also, yoga doesn't cure serious diseases. HTH.

@Leavesofautumn I'm sorry to hear about doctors not listening - I'd be frustrated and stressed by that too.

I'm sure your yoga teacher meant well.

My view (and this comes from the teacher training programme I undertook) is we should stay in our lanes - I ask all my students to check with their doctors/medical professionals if yoga is suitable for them if they have conditions which could be contraindicated.

How can it be a "scam" to make you feel better? Serious question?

Given the number of deliberate scams around cancer etc, I am not sure how to answer that without being rude.

I think I see what you meant but I have also seen the real damage done!

And sometimes wellness can be part of something a lot darker as well...
gnet-research.org/2021/03/17/pastel-qanon/
(to be fair a LOT of respected yoga teachers/people in that community have been working quite hard to push against this stuff online)

@CuriousaboutSamphire

How can it be a "scam" to make you feel better? Serious question?

Given the number of deliberate scams around cancer etc, I am not sure how to answer that without being rude.

I think I see what you meant but I have also seen the real damage done!

I am not defending the scam artists trying to con desperate people, I really am not.

I am just not agreeing that the concept of "wellness" is such a negative, when even the NHS offer some relief from wellness professional to cancer patients in hospitals, alongside access to acupuncture etc.

It doesn't mean a magic pill, blessed mud or a drop of the red sea is going to cure anyone.

@Hathall My point being that these supplements can be bought from the majority of average pharmacies, and you don't need the trendy, overpriced version that comes with pink Himalayan salt crystals. And changing your diet to handed migraine triggers is not the same thing as becoming a raw vegan who has celery juice for breakfast. Dietary management and relevant supplements are not The Wellness Industry.

@Yogateacherherehello I think yoga is a funny one, since it seems to include people (like yourself) who are passionate about yoga's health benefits and presumably want to earn a reasonable living (although I am sure that can be tricky) from providing guidance on quite a complicated/holistic form of exercise/breathing/meditation techniques often although not always with a spiritual angle. And then also includes people with outlandish claims and sometimes charging a small fortune in the process (with a hefty dollop of orientalism/cultural appropriation/weird sex cult stuff for good measure.
It must be annoying if you are NOT a scam artist.

@Yogateacherherehello Well then I'm going to request that you stop referring to the NHS as the "national illness service" in a derogatory manner. This elitism is widespread. It's also bordering on ableism (again, not sure of the right word) because millions of people have very serious illnesses and we need the NHS to help us when we're ill. I know the NHS isn't perfect, and it has its fair share of problems, but much of the time, they do actually help us when we're ill. That is what they are mainly there for, so please stop using that non-controversial fact as a way of looking down your nose at people who don't fit in with your worldview. It's insulting.

@isthisareverse

A stay in a luxury destination resort is wellness too. It might not cure you, and no-one has ever pretended it will, but it does most people a world of good.

When we are lucky enough to live in a western world with the luxury to take time and care about ourselves for more than the bare basics, we might as well make the most of it. How can it be a "scam" to make you feel better?

Well yes, going on holiday is great especially a super fancy one and its relaxing to have a break (although not if you do it with small children). I think most people would say "I felt so much better after that holiday. Its good to get away". "I needed a wellness break" is at BEST a very pretentious way of saying the same.

"I needed a wellness break" is at BEST a very pretentious way of saying the same.

possibly, but I have never heard anyone in real life using the term "wellness" to describe any "wellness" they are taking partof anyway

Stress can make existing health issues much worse, especially autoimmune conditions. Wellness can reduce stress, thus reducing symptoms. Don't underestimate the mind body connection.

Also for everyone who thinks the NHS should do more wellness stuff to stop people becoming ill in the first place: they already do. It's called vaccination. Vaccines are the most illness-preventing things that have ever been invented. But unfortunately, a lot of wellness and alternative health people now seem to be overlapping with anti-vaxxers. Think about how counterproductive that is.

@quesera2

Stress can make existing health issues much worse, especially autoimmune conditions. Wellness can reduce stress, thus reducing symptoms. Don't underestimate the mind body connection.

But that doesn't mean that any particular activity will fix any autoimmune condition - something I am often sold as a truism about my NE/CFS/.

From graded return to exercise and CBT (thanks NICE, better late than never ) to macro nutrients - from someone who didn't take kindly to being told that every food is jam packed full of them - super hydration (no idea), probiotocs, Omega 3 fatty acids etc etc

My favourite was a weird mindful eating - Forks Over Knives and similar - veganism by another name

None of which will cure ME/CFS.

@isthisareverse

"I needed a wellness break" is at BEST a very pretentious way of saying the same.

possibly, but I have never heard anyone in real life using the term "wellness" to describe any "wellness" they are taking partof anyway

No, but lots of people use the word wellnes to describe what they are selling. And that's the thing - no-one is denying that it is a good idea to eat healthy food*, avoid excess alcohol, not smoke, exercise regularly, maybe take supplements if needed, take time for relaxation. Even if those things aren't always possible. But as soon as you add the tag "Wellness" you can charge 10 times more and it normally comes with some unhelpful baggage.

*Some people benefit from specific dietary advice (like those suffering from Chromes etc) - that is what Dieticians are for, not Nutritionists

*Crohn's not Chromes. FGS autocorrect

I'm very keen on yoga as prevention for back problems as the core strength developed really helps my back. The discipline on doing it every day and taking some time just for me, not on a screen, also helped my energy levels.

Saw a thing in a fiction book set in a non-technological society where the healer would prescribe a cup of nice tasting tea to be inhaled and sipped over 15 minutes while sitting down to busy overworked people.

All examples of "wellness" that actually works for people who are a bit run down/tired due to lifestyle issues.

Not going to cure major stuff but definitely helpful.

@CuriousaboutSamphire do you mean something else? Forks over knives was about an unprocessed vegan diet, not mindful eating. Might not cure all conditions but eating fruit and veg and not processed food is generally good health advice!

I'm a yoga teacher (although no longer teaching) and a healthcare professional. Although I practice yoga still I have fallen out of love with it a bit, the whole guru thing (manipulation of vulnerable desperate people by narcissists), the egotistical teachers, the fact it remains the domain primarily of skinny white middle class women, the rip off retreats and teacher training courses. I had to interject one time when I heard a fellow you teacher regaling a bunch of impressionable young 20 something women that hospital virus were evil and awful and that women should always have homebirths due to hospitals being so bad. Very irresponsible to be preaching this to young women who've not yet had children who lapped up her every word. Lots of dogma, ego and unfortunately abuse in the yoga world.

[quote PattyPan]@CuriousaboutSamphire do you mean something else? Forks over knives was about an unprocessed vegan diet, not mindful eating. Might not cure all conditions but eating fruit and veg and not processed food is generally good health advice![/quote]
Oops! I meant that 'mindful eating' was suggested - for all of those macro nutrients etc, and Forks Over Knives given as an example.

None of which was what the person 'advising' me seemed to think it was,

I explained it badly, sorry.

I've never heard anyone saying yoga can cure cancer. I have heard them saying it can improve your core stability and balance and strength, which can help prevent back injuries and posture-induced problems and reduce the risk of falls and resulting injuries. It can help with stress. There are some excellent yoga teachers around. There are others who are quite bonkers, but they may suit other people who aren't me.

I do like a regular massage, too, but I know others who hate it. When I've been on yoga retreats and I don't have to do all the cooking, I tend to eat at more healthily, too, though there's already a lot of vegetables in my diet.

It's known that obesity can make some cancers more likely, and if someone finds juicing helps them lose weight and consume more veg, that's not a bad thing (though if they contain lots of tropical fruit, then they can be too sugary.) If people are fitter through doing yoga or swimming or gym classes, that is no bad thing, either.

I like the Kur system in Germany. My German boyfriend spent time there after he had a stroke, and I stayed for a week (we paid for my bit.) He was there with someone preparing for a hip op (physiotherapy to build strength before), and people recovering from accidents, operations and illnesses. One of my German colleagues, his wife is currently in for about 5 weeks, to manage her depression better. As a visitor, I enjoyed salt water swimming pools open air heated pools, beautiful grounds and a healthy canteen. But countries like Germany pay out a lot more for health care, as we should. They have a big Wellness industry, but it looked effective me, with a focus on prevention, with a lot more pre- and post-care. I don't know how much different levels of health insurance can affect what you get.

But there is also a lot of woo around, and my father getting terminal cancer diagnosis brought them out of the woodwork. It's fed by people wanting to do whatever they can to keep hold of the people they love, but it can give false hope and cost money - for all those who are well-meaning but deluded, there are also those who are just scammers.

I think as the wellness industry is largely unregulated it is ripe for exploitation by people with an agenda.
Sali Hughes wrote a good article on it a few years back -
doloresqgarcia.wordpress.com/2015/09/22/when-the-cult-of-wellness-becomes-unhealthy/

It's the obsession with 'clean eating' that's the problem, cutting out whole food groups etc. Makes me think of this woman, who has a company Moon Juice that sells supplement juices and powders.
www.elle.com/beauty/health-fitness/a28600/amanda-chantal-bacon-moon-juice-food-diary/

If you look at what she claims to eat in a day it's completely ridiculous, so convoluted, mostly weird powders and juices - I get that she has to be an ambassador for the company but there is so little actual food!

At 8am, I had a warm, morning chi drink on my way to the school drop off, drunk in the car! It contains more than 25 grams of plant protein, thanks to vanilla mushroom protein and stone ground almond butter, and also has the super endocrine, brain, immunity, and libido- boosting powers of Brain Dust, cordyceps, reishi, maca, and Shilajit resin. I throw ho shou wu and pearl in as part of my beauty regime. I chase it with three quinton shots for mineralization and two lipospheric vitamin B-complex packets for energy.

At 9:30am, I drink 16 ounces of unsweetened, strong green juice, which is my alkalizer, hydrator, energizer, source of protein and calcium, and overall mood balancer. It's also my easy, 'lazy,' and delicious skin regime. I also take three tablespoons of bee pollen. I love Moon Juice's soft and chewy bee pollen—it's a creamy, candy-like treat that gives me my daily B-vitamin blast, and also helps feed my skin and aids hormone production. I'll also grab a handful of activated cashews. I try to get these in every day for their brain chemistry magic. I chase this with a shot of pressed turmeric root in freshly squeezed grapefruit juice.

Activated cashews😂 my mind boggles but not enough to investigate this froth.

I've never heard anyone saying yoga can cure cancer. Be grateful there are some really weird ''gurus' out there.

It isn't evidenced based medicine or therapies that @Leavesofautumn is decrying.

It's the charlatans, like the ones your father attracted but mostly, if I read her right, the 'ooh pop this pill, it's rejuvenating etc' sellers of basic nutrients - supplements as the Magic Bullet - with a price tag to match!

@apalledandshocked I certainly don't earn a living from yoga teaching and made a loss during the pandemic as I switched to online teaching & invested in tech to make that possible.
I personally don't know any yoga teachers who are in it to try to to make a lot of money, although that does happen of course.

@Leavesofautumn The NHS has been amazing most times I've used it, including dealing with my DC's long term congenital health condition.

Dealing with that has made me very glad I had yoga in my life to help cope with the stress.

But the reality is, most of us only need the NHS when we're ill which is why I said it's largely a national illness service. In the UK, it's not resourced to be as proactive as it can be to head off preventable conditions.

I'm like this 🤦‍♀️ about the anti-vaxxers and so are my own teachers. But I do know people in the yoga community who are anti-vaxxers, just as there are a tiny minority of anti-vaxxers within the NHS and care sector.

Tangential but watching time management guru Tom Ferris entertained me for a while.

He has to save time working as the faff of making his morning cup of tea takes about an hour!
I bet he activates his cashews too.

activated cashews

WTAF!?!?

I had to Google that. Thanks, I found this

bunnyears.com/consuming-activated-cashews-feels-like-being-railed-by-mr-peanut-courtney-paige-barnett/

cashews soaked in 'alkalised water ' aka 'better water!

They’re better than boring sleeping nuts because they’re alive while still staying totally vegan we think. Activated cashews also bring you the gift of graceful poops, like a ballerina performing arabesques through your anus...

I could read that all day