Five year old DD and her behaviour

[lachy]

Hoping that the traffic in chat will be able to offer a very frazzled mum some advice.

DD is five and her behaviour currently has me at breaking point. She's full of attitude, I've no idea where this comes from as DH and I aren't like this at all.

She's argumentative, rude, and very challenging in terms of how she speaks to us and we have daily battles over teeth brushing, hair brushing, bed time, eating sensibly, manners etc.

I know she's trying to make sense of the world around her, and she's not like this with other people. She had a lovely report at the end of reception and this behaviour is probably because she's out of her routine.

Today, she's been howling and wailing because I wouldn't get her a toy, because she wanted lunch (we were in a cafe) everything I've asked her to do has been met with crocodile tears and cries of "You don't love me". (nothing could be further from the truth)

I don't know what to try next. I have no idea why my lovely little button is now an absolute demon.

This is normal
My DD is almost 6 and has passed through it but my 4 year old DS has just begun.
The “you don’t love me” seems odd though. That’s a very specific thing to say.

Maybe

That's what's upsetting me most. I've no idea where it's come from, school maybe?

It's something she's been saying for a while, and wherever she says it we always respond that we will always love her.

Because she's only 5, she has very limited control over what she watches. Generally it's BBC iPlayer or Disney+, so I don't think she's copying behaviour she's seen on TV.

I'm honestly at a loss as to what to do.

Does she get more of a reaction from you when she is naughty? If so, praise her when she is behaving nicely

@Solasum

Does she get more of a reaction from you when she is naughty? If so, praise her when she is behaving nicely

No, we tend to explain why her behaviour is naughty, (get down to her level, eye contact, talk to her about why it's not acceptable etc) she will invariably say sorry, but it's not seeming to register with her as she'll do the same thing a day or so later.

I've never sent her to her room as punishment because I want her to associate her room as a safe haven, but I do use the naughty step.

I'm hoping that a new school year will settle her back down, she'll be going into Yr1 so it's likely to be more challenging for her than reception (1 class intake so she will be with the same children through to Yr6).

I have had some success with talking to my DS (now 7) about his feelings inspired by How to Talk so Kids will Listen, which says you should help children to name and understand their emotions, so in the case of the toy, it would recommend saying something like ‘you really wanted that toy. You were feeling sad that I didn’t buy it for you’ or Similar. I know it sounds Ridiculous, but it genuinely seems to help calm things down. Plus deep breathing.

Could it be anxiety about moving to Year 1?

The you don’t love me thing is also normal and quite common. Lord know where they get these things they just know it gets a reaction. I tend to ignore it or simply say ‘oh well, that’s a shame….. she’ll stop.
Wait til she’s yelling in the middle of sainsburys ‘you’re not my mummy’

My DD (5) has been like this on and off for ages now. I can’t claim any great expertise but here are some of the things that help us.

I try to go by the mantra, ‘allow the feeling, but not the behaviour’. So I might say ‘it’s ok that you’re really cross with me about X. But I can’t let you shout in the cafe/be rude/etc’.

Then when that incident is over, talk about how she was feeling, reinforce what wasn’t allowed and talk about how she could handle it differently next time.

I also try to follow through on consequences. So if you can’t behave (in the cafe or wherever) then we leave. Which is a pain for me!

I’ve had quite a bit of success lately with setting expectations really explicitly before we go into a situation. So, say before we go into a cafe, I might say, ‘now we’re going in here, where I expect good cafe behaviour. Remind me again what good cafe behaviour is?’ She might give me some examples, and I’ll supplement if there’s anything missing.

And I also praise good behaviour.

DD does sometimes say I don’t love her, or the reverse. Like you, nothing is further from the truth, so I just stay really calm and say ‘of course I love you’.

This makes it all sound like I’m really on top of it, which I wouldn’t claim to be, but it’s been a challenging old time and I do think it’s getting better.

Being out of school definitely doesn’t help. Am trying to keep her busy.

Whenever my mum was “horrible” to me (ie wouldn’t let me have a new toy or a McDonald’s or stay up until 10pm) I used to say that she obviously wished she had adopted me . What a delightful child I was.

I think it’s quite normal and the “you don’t love me” is probably just to get a reaction. I would perhaps respond with “of course we do, we love you very much” and then swiftly move on and not get drawn into debating that. Otherwise it risks becoming a way of her not being responsible for her actions.

Thank you for all your comments. It's good to know it's not just me!

Fingers crossed the histrionics are limited today 🙏

My DS is 5 and I struggle often too! Some great advice here which I’m going to take on board.

Never shout/lose your temper is my advice - I fail miserably at this on a regular basis, but I know it only makes things worse and never helps in the long run.

My DS has all kinds of attitude and says things in what to me is a really disrespectful way a lot of the time. I’m trying to drum in polite ways of expressing his feelings (e.g. “no thank you” to a simple parenting question like do you need the toilet before we leave, instead of shouting “NO!” In a rude way. But I feel like a constant nag at the moment, constantly reprimanding him and the way he speaks to us/other people.

She's a very young child - your job is to be an imovable and steady, trustworthy, reliable rock at that age.

4 or 5 is about when I started explaining that my job as mummy (and daddy's job as daddy) is to keep (child 1/2/3) safe and help them grow up to be the best grown-up they can be one day.

I always explain that this means doing what they need not what they want, and that because I am their mummy and I love them that is what my job is. As they got older I sometimes talked at non stressful times about how the easy thing to do, to make people like you, isn't always what's best for anyone. Using friendship examples in non stressful times and tying this to parenting examples can help when they're slightly older than 5 - mine got this from 8 or so certainly.

Talking at non stressful times and being a peaceful, steady, if annoying rock for them to crash harmlessly against in stressful times pays dividends in the form of pretty easy teens IME...

Listen, talk, communicate, don't take anything personally, remember that at 5 they are incredibly young and a million miles away from any sort of emotional regulation, bit that you are their absolute dominant role model at that age in a way that you can never hope to be in puberty or beyond... Now is the time to set the calm, open, unconditionally loving but mutually respectful, well behaved tone through example and establish open channels of communication...

Good luck

To echo @Solasum, the How to Talk so Kids Will Listen books are great. I have a 5 year old and similar struggles. Boundaries are always firmly set, but I always try to acknowledge her feelings straight away, rather than appeal to her logic/lecture/tell off, etc. I’ve also been reading the whole brain child recently, which delves a bit further into the science behind appealing to feelings first and logic second.

@MaybeMaybeNotJ

This is normal My DD is almost 6 and has passed through it but my 4 year old DS has just begun. The “you don’t love me” seems odd though. That’s a very specific thing to say.

DD2 when she was 4, said "[my aunt's name] loves me more than you do because she takes me to more interesting places." I think she honestly believed it. I explained that we were very poor and she was quite well off, and it was lovely that she wanted to spend her money taking her places.

My five year old does the ‘you don’t love me’ line too. He got it from his eight year old brother who hit it from.... no idea 🙄

We had a shocking afternoon with poor behaviour from the five year old. My advice is consequences, not punishment and always follow through.

In the space of a 15 minute car journey home DC managed to tantrum himself into losing chocolate, the iPad, the WII, the Sega, a stop at the shop for milk and then finally dessert 🤭 that might sound extreme but his behaviour is extreme. Hitting, throwing, screaming, kicking the back of my seat etc. So I give a warning that if X happens again this will be the consequence and it’s up to him whether he continues. Eventually when we got home he hit me, lost his desert and then finally played beautifully with his brother for the rest of the afternoon/evening before he was popped into bed at 7.30pm. New day tomorrow and each day we pass where he understands he can’t rampage though the house denying walls and hitting people his behaviour gets slightly less extreme. I’m confident one day he’ll be reasonable. We just have to get there.

*denting

Does she get much positive attention one to one time with her parents?

Have did this online course a while ago 'positive parenting solutions' quite good but the one thing we have taken from it is that everyday we do 'special time', can be a pain in the arse to be honest but idea is you spend 10 to 15 minutes per parent per kid with 100% focus on the child, doing whatever they want to do. Playing, chatting, bike ride, whatever they want (although not meant to be screen time).

My kids absolutely love it!! Idea is that it's meant to fill up their 'attention bucket' positively, so they don't seek it negatively by acting up. Seems to work ok for DS4 and DD6. Don't get me wrong they are both a handful, DS is typical little boy and DD can be very sensitive / emotional but never really had any disrespect or 'you don't love me' type comments.

Maybe worth a try?

Also sounds a bit ridiculous to say 'spend 15 mins with your kid' but what we found we were doing is would set up activities or whatever but not really connect?

You have to make sure you make a thing of it being 'special time' as well, the fact that they realise it's their time is a big tick for them in feeling that you have time for them.

I did this when my DD2 was younger. When she was having a meltdown id say go and get your teddy and lie on the sofa til you're feeling better and then come and join us. She learnt to regain control quickly. Yours might be too old but it was so successful.

@Wallywobbles yeah good point, good to find coping mechanisms for them when they lose the plot. DD always likes to have a drink of her water to help her calm down. I think it goes back the having her bottle which she had til about 3 and always used to sooth her.