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What has got into my children?!

22 replies

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 18:46

Hello.

I have two children, one age 5 and one age 3. 5 year old has autism (which is relevant because this is about behaviour) but generally you wouldn't know outside of home if you didn't know her. She's an excellent masker, speaks amazingly and is very academically advanced but she struggles massively with being overwhelmed/sensory processing etc. She does know how to behave though! I'm a sahm and a parent carer.

Anyway obvs it's the school holidays (our first one). My two have been an absolute nightmare behaviour wise. First week I put it down to the eldest having a change in routine and I do think it was partially that - even though she struggles at school (she has 1-1 support still of the time) not going is such a change it affects her.

BUT. And this is the weird bit. They are only misbehaving when both DH and I are at home, and we're in our house. If we go to the grandparents - either set - (or take them there for an afternoon and leave them there!) they behave perfectly, or out and about. If I go out like I did at the weekend the other week, they're great for DH. If he goes into the office they're great for me.

Problem is, we are all home quite a bit. DH works from home, currently, though he can book into the office whenever he wants. We do go out a couple of times a week but eldest DD can't manage more than that, if we do we pay for it in meltdowns and it's so distressing for her. Even on the days we stay home I always get them outside for a good long walk or play at the park which is fine as we live in a village and it's very quiet.

When I say they misbehave, I mean both of them. My only just three year old is stroppy, rude (and yes, she does understand!) and tantrum throwing. She started hitting me and throwing things when I tell her off. The five year old never hits unless she's in meltdown but she's backchatty, and literally will not listen to a word I say. Neither of them do. The only thing that stops them when they start running riot is to make them sit separately on their beds.

Ive tried being very firm and stern. Changing tones of voice. Raising my voice (they laugh!). They ignore me. I've tried consequences , confiscating toys, naughty steps. Ive tried positive things like rewards charts and marble jars (where they earn a marble for good behaviour and lost one for bad and at the end of the week they get a treat if the jar is full). If they misbehaved out of home I'd bring them straight back but they don't and the only do it when both DH and I are here!

I know the difference between when my eldest is having a difficulty with her autism or feeling overwhelmed and 'acting out' as a result - this isn't that. I adjust for that, always with different strategies. This is outright naughtiness from them both, winding each other up, behaving wildly and to be honest I'm at my wits end and so is DH. DH has also tried all of the same things, different ways, same ways. They also ignore him.

They've never been like this before and generally they aren't badly behaved children! I'm not a soft parent I have to have a real handle on behaviour and environment because of how my eldest is. I've also been on about a million (feels like) courses about autism, parenting a child with it, challenging behaviour etc etc. So I'm not clueless. But it certainly feels like it right now!!

Any suggestions? I know generally 3 year olds are arses, but mine seems turbocharged! When she's not misbehaving she's the funniest, most affectionate little light of my life ever. But wow she's testing me and along with her sister.... well!

OP posts:
Mwnci123 · 10/08/2021 18:51

My husband has booked to go in to the office the last couple of weeks because our youngest (kids are 3 and 5) was intolerable at the start of the holidays when we were both at home. I think the little one thought because the big one was home it should be like the weekend, when we all do things as a family, so took massive exception to my husband trying to work.

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 19:10

@Mwnci123 DH has booked in for a couple of days next week. One to see if it helps (we suspect it will!) and two because even though he's shut in the study he can't concentrate with the constant din!

OP posts:
Quietcrown · 10/08/2021 19:27

I could almost have written this myself. No advice but my two also behave worse when DP and I are at home! I have no idea why, except that maybe the house is noisier with an extra person or something?

My oldest has ASD too, and I definitely think she is suffering from the change in routine. I think maybe she is bored too as she really enjoys learning and has loads of energy.

Her younger sister is really noisy just now and I don't know if it's maybe competing for attention?!

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Jellycatspyjamas · 10/08/2021 19:42

I remember someone telling me that if my kids were well behaved out and about or with other people, but little buggers at home I was probably doing something right. Their home is their safe space where they don’t need to mask, their relationships with their parents are solid so they can let the usual societal expectations go a bit. I’d address the things that are important for you (for me that would be basic manners, behaviour at meal times and bedtime routine - your list might look different) and ease up on everything else. They behave when they need to, at home they can relax.

DSGBT · 10/08/2021 19:44

I have no ways to you help but just to let you know you are not alone! I have a 5 year old and 3.5 year old twins, one with disabilities. Their behaviour is awful at home, particularly one of the twins. They are pretty perfect when out, they were angels when a family member looked after them last week. Tried all your strategies as well, not much works. Sorry I don’t have an answer but you have my sympathies!

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 19:45

@Quietcrown

I could almost have written this myself. No advice but my two also behave worse when DP and I are at home! I have no idea why, except that maybe the house is noisier with an extra person or something?

My oldest has ASD too, and I definitely think she is suffering from the change in routine. I think maybe she is bored too as she really enjoys learning and has loads of energy.

Her younger sister is really noisy just now and I don't know if it's maybe competing for attention?!

Poor DH doesn't make any noise! We're lucky to have a separate study so he goes in and shuts the door. We're quite separate from him, if that makes sense.

I did wonder initially if eldest was masking at our parents but I really don't think she is. 1) Shes super comfortable there, their houses are like second homes and 2) if she was we'd be seeing meltdowns when she got home, or she'd be stimming there. We don't. Her GPS are great, really on top of keeping an eye on all things ASD related and if she wasn't happy for any reason they'd call me or if I was there id bring her home.

Boredom, maybe but I've got pretty well practised at keeping them entertained at home owing to the lockdowns. They've got lots of toys, lots of learning stuff, we do arts and crafts, we do baking. Sometimes we try to do not much at all and chill in front of a film. I tend not to do tablets, 3 year old doesn't have one and the 5 year old only has hers if she really needs to zone out with her headphones on then she does colouring on it for a bit. I set them up with an activity - we had a huge tub of building stuff this morning and they okayed beautifully for ten minutes... then it all descended into chaos. I try to leave them to their own devices sometimes and again they'll go and make up a game playing mummies and babies for ten minutes then boom - one of them will kick off and all hell breaks loose!

Eldest loves learning too. I took her to the library at the start of the holidays and got a load of the phonics books that she's on at school and she happily read those and we've started with some chapter books too which she loves. She also likes to sit and write 'letters' to us all which is great. I entertain the youngest so she can do this, but even that doesn't last long. Eldest is also free to go up to her room and play alone if that's what she wants to do, which sometimes she does for ten minutes but it's never for long.

Play dates only really happen in parks etc because eldest struggles with people in her space. I take the youngest to some toddler groups still, so she's still getting some interaction with children her own age.

OP posts:
SkyLarkDescending · 10/08/2021 19:50

I also could've written this OP!
Mine are 2 and 4 so the youngest's behaviour i can understand more easily. The eldest though has been backchatty and cheeky when she is normally so calm and funny! I was putting it down to nerves about starting school in September. I can't take the fighting anymore.

I'm trying to get them to soft play or playgrounds as I think they're missing the interactions with other children which they normally have at nursery.

Katekarate · 10/08/2021 20:19

Are they especially excited about something? eg a holiday you're going on? Mine used to get like this in the Christmas school holidays just through excitement.

It sounds like you need a hand. Is there any money to see if you can find a Uni student or someone to come in for a few hours a week so you can get a break? If not can you fix things with dh so you get a regular bit of time just to yourself?

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 20:29

@Katekarate

Are they especially excited about something? eg a holiday you're going on? Mine used to get like this in the Christmas school holidays just through excitement.

It sounds like you need a hand. Is there any money to see if you can find a Uni student or someone to come in for a few hours a week so you can get a break? If not can you fix things with dh so you get a regular bit of time just to yourself?

Nope! We've not got a holiday booked. We've got a few days out here and there, but we don't tell them until 24 hours before. Too early and my eldest works herself up in a panic about whatever it is even if it's something she really wants to do, and too late and it's springing a surprise on her and she can't cope. So we might say 'we're going to the zoo tomorrow!' and she'll be fine but it's all about the timing with her.

Small mercies is bedtime, our routine for that is pretty military and never changing (again because of the ASD) and luckily it suits my youngest too. Once I've managed to stop them leaping on my sofas (I mean really that's never been allowed!) and running around like cheetahs and have got their pyjamas on, they pipe down and behave. Teeth brushed, faces washed, toilet used, stories in bed and sleep and they don't mess about. They sleep a good 12/13 hours too. I've no idea why this particular thing is unaffected but my god I am glad because it means we (except for the very odd occasion where one is ill or whatever) get uninterrupted evenings to ourselves which is priceless in terms of recharging.

OP posts:
dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 20:36

As for more of a daytime break I couldn't get someone in, no. Eldest needs someone trained at least in dealing with children who have ASD and I also couldn't just leave her with a new person it'd taken weeks for her to feel comfortable and settled.

I do have the option of grandparents, as I said they're fab and one set is retired. They're more than happy for me to drop them off once a week for the day but I've always felt like it's taking the piss when I don't work in a paid job. Looking after them is my job, currently. But my MIL told me off a bit the other day and said that actually it's not childcare it's them spending time with their grandchildren which they love to do and would I please stop worrying and just bloody well drop them off. So I did. And they were perfect angels, of course and had a wonderful time. My parents work but again they do pop round regularly and when they do ill often pop out for a half hour walk for a bit of headspace. So I'm not unsupported, I have lots more help than others do, I'm just very frustrated that no matter what I seem to do if I've got them at home it all seems to go to shit.

OP posts:
dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 20:47

@Jellycatspyjamas

I remember someone telling me that if my kids were well behaved out and about or with other people, but little buggers at home I was probably doing something right. Their home is their safe space where they don’t need to mask, their relationships with their parents are solid so they can let the usual societal expectations go a bit. I’d address the things that are important for you (for me that would be basic manners, behaviour at meal times and bedtime routine - your list might look different) and ease up on everything else. They behave when they need to, at home they can relax.
It's funny you say that. We took them to a cafe for a cake the other day. Honestly that sat nicely at the table chatting amongst themselves and when the waitress came over my 3 year old picked up the menu (copying us, she can't read obviously) and when the waitress asked us (the grown ups) what we'd all like youngest said 'excuse me, I'd like a brownie cake and a cup of milk please' then set her menu down. It was so funny and the waitress said 'oh my goodness what an adorable little girl, such beautiful manners!' I just smiled and said thank you.

And I thought HA! Hahaha! You don't see her at home when she's flinging her dinner on the floor telling me it's 'DISSSSSGUSTING MUMMY!' even though she ate it last week and loved it and then screaming at me because I won't let her have an ice cream instead.

Terror.

OP posts:
Katekarate · 10/08/2021 20:56

I do have the option of grandparents, as I said they're fab and one set is retired. They're more than happy for me to drop them off once a week for the day but I've always felt like it's taking the piss when I don't work in a paid job. Looking after them is my job, currently

You wouldn't take a job where there was never a lunch hour though Wink Honestly if you've got the offers you should take it - people love to help out and it's great for dcs to spend time with grandparents. Just go and sit in a cafe for an hour or something else nice that's just for you.

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 21:06

No you're right @Katekarate and I will take them up on it once a week. They miss seeing the eldest when she's at school all week and the children have so much fun there so it's silly not to.

Maybe being there a bit more will remind them of how to behave themselves Confused

Ironically, if Granny or Grandad tells them off (rarely ever needed and more of an 'excuse me girls what do you think you're doing?' than an actual proper telling off) they are mortified and pack it in at once!

OP posts:
trilbydoll · 10/08/2021 21:12

Mine are 8 and 6 and still do this to a certain extent, they'll try and play us off against each other. They're perfect for DH on his own, less perfect for me admittedly and 200% perfect for anyone else. But if we are both there it can be a lot of low level I want to hold mummy's hand / I want to sit next to daddy / she looked at me funny / why is the world against me. Especially if they are tired, hungry or both.

I spend a lot of time telling people to stop bloody arguing with me / their sister / inanimate objects that have somehow offended them.

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 10/08/2021 22:08

@trilbydoll

Mine are 8 and 6 and still do this to a certain extent, they'll try and play us off against each other. They're perfect for DH on his own, less perfect for me admittedly and 200% perfect for anyone else. But if we are both there it can be a lot of low level I want to hold mummy's hand / I want to sit next to daddy / she looked at me funny / why is the world against me. Especially if they are tired, hungry or both.

I spend a lot of time telling people to stop bloody arguing with me / their sister / inanimate objects that have somehow offended them.

Oh the arguing and the bickering!

We today had it over their water cups. Which are identical. I always give them the same colour ones precisely so they don't argue. Still we had:

DD1: Tries to snatch cup
Me: 'NO snatching! Leave your sister alone'.
DD2: 'Its mine, waaaaah!'
DD1: No that ones mine MUUUUMMMM she's drinking out of my cup and putting her dribble on it, yuck'
DD2 'I don't dribble I'm NOT A BABY MUUUUMMMMMM she said I'm a baby and I'm a big girl and ITS MINE ITS MY PINK CUP WAAAAH
Me: 'Dd1, it's DD2s cup. Here is yours. Stop it right now, both of you. We don't snatch and we don't shout at each other. You sit there (sits bum on seat!) you sit there (sits second bum on seat!) and that is ENOUGH.

Both children scream like I've tortured them for making them sit down and we descend into full blown tantrums which end in them both having to sit in their beds separately.

I mean ffs.

OP posts:
Houseplantophile · 11/08/2021 05:59

Hi-
This sounds exhausting but also like you’re doing a great job, even if it doesn’t feel like it at the moment.

I know it sounds basic, but have you tried asking them?! Maybe during quiet time, one on one before bed?

I wonder if they might need some time out from each other? Does the 3 yr old get dedicated time with you alone? What does the 5yr old do when the 3yr old is at nursery?

Could one of them go to a grandparent for half a day and the other go for half day on another day? Then they’re each getting some dedicated attention from that grandparent and then you also give dedicated attention to the one you have at home?

It also sounds like some earlier interception and diversion may be needed? You’ve mentioned a couple of times that they’re off playing nicely for ten mins or so before it all kicks off.. maybe they need you there during that time to spot the warning signs and step in before it kicks off?!

Also, maybe consider getting them out of the house and exercised as literally one of the first things to do in the morning? So that energy is burnt off early? And possible consider a second outdoors activity mid afternoon, a walk or game in the garden.

I think the main thing though is that it sounds like you’re doing a great job. Your kids know how to behave well, they’ve got good manners when they need to. Don’t let this period of time make you feel otherwise!

Fucket · 11/08/2021 06:07

My DH is wfh and it’s hell, and I sympathise.

I’ve taken mine on very long walks each day to get some of the ‘energy’ out of them. The more you walk, the greater their stamina becomes so you can go further afield and for more adventures in the countryside, find rivers or beaches, forests etc. It’s really helped, especially when they get over stimulated. Train them to listen to birdsong, and then they have to be quiet and somehow nature has a calming effect.

dontyouworrydontyouworrynow · 11/08/2021 08:52

@Houseplantophile

Hi- This sounds exhausting but also like you’re doing a great job, even if it doesn’t feel like it at the moment.

I know it sounds basic, but have you tried asking them?! Maybe during quiet time, one on one before bed?

I wonder if they might need some time out from each other? Does the 3 yr old get dedicated time with you alone? What does the 5yr old do when the 3yr old is at nursery?

Could one of them go to a grandparent for half a day and the other go for half day on another day? Then they’re each getting some dedicated attention from that grandparent and then you also give dedicated attention to the one you have at home?

It also sounds like some earlier interception and diversion may be needed? You’ve mentioned a couple of times that they’re off playing nicely for ten mins or so before it all kicks off.. maybe they need you there during that time to spot the warning signs and step in before it kicks off?!

Also, maybe consider getting them out of the house and exercised as literally one of the first things to do in the morning? So that energy is burnt off early? And possible consider a second outdoors activity mid afternoon, a walk or game in the garden.

I think the main thing though is that it sounds like you’re doing a great job. Your kids know how to behave well, they’ve got good manners when they need to. Don’t let this period of time make you feel otherwise!

The 3 year old isn't in nursery. She starts preschool in September (it's a term time only one) for 2 days a week, which she is so ready for, but she's never been in childcare as I'm a sahm. So come September the eldest will be at school again full time and 2 days the youngest will also be at preschool.

They have some 1-1 time, not loads but some. They get taken to swimming separately once a week each, I take the youngest to a couple of toddler groups a week (eldest hates things like this and is too big now anyway but she couldn't cope with holiday clubs - too many children and no 1-1 support or trained adults available for her anyway). She stays with DH for these and he takes his 'lunch' break around them so he spends the time with her doing whatever she likes. I've also been doing things like taking the eldest to the library for an hour on her own or to our local SEN sensory rooms (which are fab!) if I've got someone who can watch the youngest.

Ironically DH has gone into the office today, and they've behaved beautifully so far! Eaten breakfast nicely at the table, got washed and dressed and are now sat colouring, stickering and making a 'menu' for lunchtime (apparently I'm now a short order chef. But never mind they're quiet!). They're sharing and taking turns with no arguing at all.

I just don't get it. I would if they successfully managed to play us off against each other and got huge reactions from us but we've been making a huge effort not to undermine each other or disagree (even if we do disagree on a particular thing we back each other up and discuss it later). We try to be really boring in our reactions - if they're going nuts and I tell them off and they run to Dad, he just calmly reiterates whatever I've said and reminds them that he thinks it's unacceptable to speak to mummy like that, or whatever. I don't know where it comes from, if DH and I roared at each other constantly or spoke rudely to each other then they'd be following our example. But we don't!

Honestly, to be in the minds of children!

OP posts:
MrsJackWhicher · 11/08/2021 09:00

remember someone telling me that if my kids were well behaved out and about or with other people, but little buggers at home I was probably doing something right. Their home is their safe space where they don’t need to mask, their relationships with their parents are solid so they can let the usual societal expectations go a bit*
Absolutely this.
I could never believe it when other parents told me how polite and considerate my DC were how they wished theirs were the same cheerfully eating VEGETABLES (!!!!) etc.
The worst adjusted child I knew was a boy who was a terror at school and when I went to his house (in my class st school) he was s frightened mouse and his parents were draconian and humourless.
Hi bever achieved his potential -dropped out/drugs etc and sex offences.

Babdoc · 11/08/2021 09:33

I’m a great believer in exercise, plus a full structured regime, for autistic kids during the day at home.
My elder DD is autistic, as am I, and I found that a daily walk whatever the weather, plus things like swimming, and ball games, burned off a lot of energy that would otherwise be vented in mischief.
Days at home followed a pattern - reading stories, singing songs with actions (the Singing Kettle was v popular when my DDs were young), board games, half an hour of children’s tv, drawing/painting, baking, playing piano, time in the garden etc.
We did a lot of trips out, but to repeated familiar local places such as the beach, hills, lochs, forests, wildlife parks, so DD knew what to expect.
There were occasional problems, such as panic attacks in the supermarket when they had installed noisy screens blaring adverts in every aisle without warning, and the odd meltdown when we visited a new tourist destination for the first time, but mostly a familiar routine kept DD steady.
I never really needed to use punishments or sanctions, and I didn’t shout - I found a quiet, menacing hiss type of voice an effective deterrent! Combined with explaining in advance what we would be doing, and always giving a logical reason for why she couldn’t do something - I never used “because I say so” as I regard it as inflammatory!
Finally, have a look at how the grandparents interact with your DDs. Try to emulate their air of calm confidence, of expecting the DDs to respect them, of projecting authority without needing to shout. Your DDs need to respect you as well as love you, if you want good behaviour at home.
Parenting an autistic child can be a challenge, but the converse is also true. As an autistic myself, I found my NT daughter much harder to understand, and she (now in her 30’s) laughs affectionately at her “batshit” mum and sister!
You will get through this, OP. You are almost into that lovely patch of childhood between toddler tantrums and teenage strops, where DC are almost human, and great fun to be with!

Smartiepants79 · 11/08/2021 10:53

The only thing I’ll add is that you sound like you’ve tried a lot of different things, over what time scale??
Children generally respond better to consistency and will take time to respond to a change in strategy.
Pick one positive reinforcement and one consequences strategy and stick at it for a period of time. Be consistent and don’t give up.
Pick your definite no’s and stick to them.
I can’t tell if your already doing this so ignore me if you are!

SkyLarkDescending · 11/08/2021 22:11

I'm just wondering Reading more of your posts OP how your DC react to stories?

I've been reading more with mine this week and discussing the themes with my eldest (4yrs), talking through what the characters do and how they treat each other. Although the youngest (2yrs) obviously wasn't as interested in the actual story, she loved the ritual of sitting down together, turning pages, laughing when her sister did etc.

I've given them the incentive of a library visit at the end of the week and it's definitely feeling a little calmer here so far!

Do you read social stories with your autistic DD? How do you talk about how we treat others with them?

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