Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Universal credit fraud?

48 replies

Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:01

My ex Dh and I split approx 18 months ago and he received over £20k from me as part of our settlement.
He was unable to get a job during Covid and went onto universal credit living in rented accommodation.

He has now had a phone call from the compliance team at the DWP to say they have been informed he had this amount of money in the bank and did not declare it so has been receiving the full entitlement of universal credit as a single person, rent paid for, reduced council tax etc.

He has admitted on the phone that he did indeed have this amount in the bank and now has to provide bank statements etc. He must have been mad to think they would never find out. What is the worst case scenario?

I know I shouldn't be bothered as it is entirely his fault but I am worried about the implications on our young dc.
Does anybody have knowledge in this field and know how much they will ask him to pay back plus a fine?

Will they give him an allowance that he had to pay £6k straight out to pay a years rent in advance ?
Worse case scenario could he go to prison?

OP posts:
Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:47

I really cannot for the life of me imagine why he wouldn't tell them. Greed? Stupidity? Naivety?

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:48

@feellikeanalien

OP they will definitely reclaim the whole amount he was paid whilst his capital was over £16,000 and a proportion whilst he has between £6000 and £16,000. I had to claim UC for a short period and informed them the day I received some money from an inheritance.

The DWP have what they call an assessment period for each month you receive UC. Any money you receive in that period will affect the amount of UC paid. Because I received money from the inheritance on the last day of the assessment period they said that I had to repay the whole month's money. If I had received the money the next day I would have owed them nothing.

Because the UC payment is one payment which includes an amount to cover rent they will want the whole amount back. As others have said they will probably deduct an amount off his monthly benefit payment. If he is not going to be receiving UC but gets another benefit they will take it off that. I have the money deducted from Carer's Allowance. There is no leeway. They really won't care if he has enough to live on or not.

They are very hot on repayments and Council Tax will also issue him with a new bill to cover what he should have been paying.

Yes exactly. They will look at each month he was claiming and what savings he had at that point. To be honest I think the council tax may be more of an issue as the threshold likely to be a lot lower and therefore he will need to pay back all of the Council tax support but that will also be complex to calculate because the council look at what you receive from Uc to calculate council tax support so if he was eligible to claim Uc for some of the period over the last 18 months they will have to look at recalculated UC entitlement.
Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:48

Plus he said the compliance officer was nice and friendly who spoke to him over the phone. I suspect it may be a case of softly softly catchy monkey.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Benefits
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:49

[quote Grandadwasthatyou]@Babyroobs I think you are right. Will he get a fine in addition to having to pay anything back?[/quote]
I think it would depend whether they think it was deliberate or an oversight.

Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:50

@Grandadwasthatyou

Plus he said the compliance officer was nice and friendly who spoke to him over the phone. I suspect it may be a case of softly softly catchy monkey.
Hopefully it will only be a short while that his savings were actually over 16k and he wasn't eligible to claim at all. It may not be as bad as he thinks.
Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:50

I can't see how anybody can claim it was an oversight that they forgot to mention they had over £20k in the bank? I don't know but how often will he have been asked if his information is still the same?

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:51

@Grandadwasthatyou

I can't see how anybody can claim it was an oversight that they forgot to mention they had over £20k in the bank? I don't know but how often will he have been asked if his information is still the same?
If savings drop then you are meant to report it on your Uc journal. So if you started your claim with 15k in savings then you spend say £5k on essential household repairs one month you would then need to let them know that savings have dropped and they will adjust the deduction accordingly.
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:52

@Grandadwasthatyou

I can't see how anybody can claim it was an oversight that they forgot to mention they had over £20k in the bank? I don't know but how often will he have been asked if his information is still the same?
Was it below 16k after he had paid the rent up front for a year though ? if so there may not be too much of an overpayment.
Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:53

His savings will have dropped by him paying his rent up front but also buying a car, electronic goods etc. Could this be seen as deliberately spending to get his savings under the limit?

OP posts:
Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 21:54

@Babyroobs .. thanks for your help so far. You are very knowledgeable.

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:55

@Grandadwasthatyou

His savings will have dropped by him paying his rent up front but also buying a car, electronic goods etc. Could this be seen as deliberately spending to get his savings under the limit?
Possibly could be seen as deprivation of capital. But it is fine to spend on essential things, a second hand car etc. Buying a top of the range new car, an expensive holiday etc could be seen as deprivation of capital. It's a very grey area to be honest. It may not be as bad as he thinks.
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 21:58

[quote Grandadwasthatyou]@Babyroobs .. thanks for your help so far. You are very knowledgeable. [/quote]
I've just been dealing with a client who forgot to mention he owned a home he wasn't living in and rented out !! I can only encourage him to fess up before they find out. It's more common than you think that people just don't think to declare things for whatever reason. This client did have a lot going on ( illness etc ) so I'm really hoping he won't be in too much trouble but would likely have an overpayment as equity in second house was more than 16k.

Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 05/08/2021 22:01

@Babyroobs .. the only advice I could give him was to be completely up front and honest in order for it to be dealt with quickly.

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 05/08/2021 22:05

[quote Grandadwasthatyou]@Babyroobs .. the only advice I could give him was to be completely up front and honest in order for it to be dealt with quickly. [/quote]
They will ask for bank statement and things I guess and take it from there. He will be ok if it was only for a short time he was over 16k.

Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 08/08/2021 18:19

One more thing?
When DWP have worked out the overpayment could they ask him to pay it back in one lump sum if they know he has that in the bank?

OP posts:
SmileyClare · 08/08/2021 18:32

I think you're worrying unnecessarily about implications on your children. What do you mean by that? Is your ex paying maintenance out of his benefit payments?

If he has spent a large chunk of his divorce settlement, he will continue receiving UC with an instalment taken off each month to cover the overpayments. He might get a small fine.

If he starts working then he can continue to clear his debt in monthly instalments.

He's your ex, it's his problem and I'm unsure why he's involving you to this degree. Is he expecting you to bail him out or something? Confused

Original poster
Grandadwasthatyou · 08/08/2021 20:05

@SmileyClare no I'm not getting maintenance and I have no intention of bailing him out for his stupidity.
But he treats the dc well, gives them pocket money, little trips away etc and I'm worried he won't be able to do this anymore. Purely thinking about the dc.

OP posts:
SmileyClare · 08/08/2021 20:14

Any repayments he has to make to the DWP will be means tested and monthly instalments affordable for him will be calculated. He won't be left penniless.

However, he will be worse off financially and have less disposable money. Presumably he will get a job now as most industries are back operating after covid.

Child maintenance payments should have been taken out of his UC award. Not sure why he hasn't been giving you that.

SmileyClare · 08/08/2021 20:38

To be honest the universal credit payments are very low (for honest claimants) I went onto UC for a period during lockdown and after rent and bills I had around £40 a week to feed a family. It's almost impossible to live on.

Therefore the only reason he's been able to treat the dc, buy a car, new electrical goods, go on trips etc is that he's burning through his divorce payment and was spending the awarded rent money (when he'd paid for the first year) on himself or the dc.

That's all going to stop. I'm guessing his rent will soon be due monthly if he paid a year upfront when you spilt? I doubt he has much of the 20k left after 18 months. So actually you're right, it will affect the dc. That said, it doesn't mean he can't be a good father to them when they visit. The most important thing he can give them is his time and attention.

He does sound bloody irresponsible and I would find it hard to feel sympathetic if he's feeling sorry for himself. He's a fool to think his current set up would continue indefinitely.

VladmirsPoutine · 08/08/2021 20:47

Given this is ostensibly a shit storm of his own making you are very preoccupied by it. You're a very empathetic ex wife.

PlanDeRaccordement · 08/08/2021 20:50

If the settlement was from sale of family home and it is intended to be used to buy a home, it can be exempted from the UC rules. He should talk to a benefits advisor at citizens advice.

PlanDeRaccordement · 08/08/2021 20:59

Here is the gov text in that
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/932331/admh2.pdf

“Amount to be used to purchase premises
H2119 Where a person has received an amount within the past 6 months which is to be used to purchase premises that the person intend to occupy as their home, that amount can be disregarded from the calculation of that person’s capital where it

  1. is attributable to the proceeds of the sale of premises formerly occupied as their home or 2. has been deposited with a housing association (see H2045) or
  2. is a grant made to the person for the sole purpose of purchasing a home1.

Is it reasonable to disregard for longer
H2120 The DM may decide it is reasonable to disregard the amount for a longer period if, for example

  1. people have tried but not found premises which are suitable for their or a member of their family's needs (in particular, if one of them is disabled and needs a certain type of accommodation)
  2. the person has found premises and the 2.1 sale has not been completed or 2.2 seller later decides not to sell.
Babyroobs · 08/08/2021 23:37

@PlanDeRaccordement

Here is the gov text in that assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/932331/admh2.pdf

“Amount to be used to purchase premises
H2119 Where a person has received an amount within the past 6 months which is to be used to purchase premises that the person intend to occupy as their home, that amount can be disregarded from the calculation of that person’s capital where it

  1. is attributable to the proceeds of the sale of premises formerly occupied as their home or 2. has been deposited with a housing association (see H2045) or
  2. is a grant made to the person for the sole purpose of purchasing a home1.

Is it reasonable to disregard for longer
H2120 The DM may decide it is reasonable to disregard the amount for a longer period if, for example

  1. people have tried but not found premises which are suitable for their or a member of their family's needs (in particular, if one of them is disabled and needs a certain type of accommodation)
  2. the person has found premises and the 2.1 sale has not been completed or 2.2 seller later decides not to sell.
It doesn't sound like this applies in this situation though ? It has been well past six months.
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread