In a world accepting neurodiversity, what is neurotupical?

[FlyingRabbitsAtNoon]

I’ll preface with two things - I NC as I was originally going to talk about something more personal but decided to refrain for now. I will likely touch on things included so I’ve kept that for now. And I’m also sorry if the title is in anyway uncomfortable, but I didn’t know how else to word it.

What is the norm that sets apart neurodiverse people to neurotypical is my question in essence?

I ask, because I assume I am neurotypical but have traits all over the place - I’ve just spend the weekend at my dad’s and his partner. There’s no particular reason why, but I am I uncomfortable around my dad. I’m even worse with his partner. I realised that most of my visit I was avoiding eye contact and had to remind myself to look at her. I also noted something she said about one of her sons (ASD) in that he doesn’t really ask about others - I don’t think I did that either. That said, I’m not always like that with other people.

I hate being in certain situations with people I am close to but fine in others - so for example I can work and joke with colleagues in the office but if we are walking somewhere together I feel uncomfortable and struggle with conversation. Although it’s the same person I feel massively out of my comfort zone. I have lots of little examples like that.

So what really sets neurodiversity apart? How would you know that you are if you are in low levels of difficulty? What is ‘normal’ in this situation? I don’t think I’m necessarily neurodiverse but I’m also neither a fine example of neurotypical either, I guess.

I’m not trying to be insensitive here. I have two brothers, both ASD (another reason perhaps why I question this about myself) and I’ve seen their difficulties firsthand. The are both on very different sides of the scale but it’s notable.

I suppose my second question is how do you know if you are neurodiverse and not just an awkward, anxious person? Especially in women. L

I think (and I might be wrong about this) that ASD is diagnosed when particular traits have a detrimental effect on the way the person lives their lives. It has to be an impairment. It's just a label given to a collection of symptoms that overlaps with other things that ADD,ADHD, DCD etc.

I think there are lots of people who have mild social impairment but maybe wouldn't fit the criteria for ASD...

The short answer is (I think) that the line is about when symptoms become an impairment to normal functioning.

@Mazblue86 Thank you for this! Honestly it’s really helpful.

Do you think there’s a lot of people who have certain things they struggle with but are fully functional? I suppose I always feel a bit alone as it’s not something you talk about and I manage, but I’m always curious.

Your post mentions a lot of things I also have difficulty with. Particularly the walking somewhere with people. I hate that! Small talk is very difficult for me!!

I also had to teach myself to ask about other people once I learnt that it was the "normal" thing to do. I also had to teach myself to make eye contact.

I don't have autism but I was diagnosed with ADHD in March and I'll be 40 this year! I had a very long standing history of depression and anxiety but no real reason for it and just knew I didn't "fit in" which is why I finally perused a diagnosis.

Don't think I'm really answering your question but just wanted to ramble on about myself give my experience.

And I think @Mazblue86 hits the nail on the head. My assessment did focus on how my symptoms/traits affected my daily life.

@LysistrataVickers Thank you - it’s really interesting you said that because I was speaking with one of my closest friends a couple of weeks ago and she’s wondered if she has ADHD after reading some things on the web. What she listed resonated to me too. I’m not suggesting either of us of do actually have ADHD but it did spark this question / are there a lot more neurodiverse people out there but not diagnosed if we don’t seek a diagnosis because we can ‘adjust’ to what’s expected of us? What prompted you to get a diagnosis? Or did a professional suggest it to you initially to find out?

I think i probably have undiagnosed adhd or asd.
Im quite messy. I struggle with friendships. At uni i ended up left out. I get along well with other people with traits.
My dsis had aborderline eating disorder (down to 6 stone). We are all obsessive.
But also my eldest dc is very pda/adhd and has been since a toddler. Into everything. Struggled in yr r/1. Doesnt have friends really (as annoys them/is rude to them). And in some ways not that interested in other kids. But because (honestly) other dc are worse i dont think we would get a diagnosis. It is impeding her day to day though. (As you cant get her dressed for school/do home schooling/drink milk/get shoes on/not spend ages avoiding things on the toilet) in fact the social issues really only started at school.
So yes i think there are lots of undiagnosed. But also there will be increasing people with asd as it's linked i think to increased parental age (or age gap) and i think people are now more likely to meet similar people at uni or work so more asd genes.

@FlyingRabbitsAtNoon it was me who perused it because, as you quite rightly mention, I had adjusted and was constantly adjusting all through my life to fit in with what was expected of me but it was so exhausting just trying to be normal that I figured something must be, not wrong, but different in the way I thought.

Originally I went for an autism assessment and that was negative but I just kept researching and when I read more about female adhd which presents quite differently to male adhd, a lightbulb went off and I decided to ask for adhd assessment. I'm glad I did because now I have the medication I need, real life isn't quite so overwhelming!! I suspect my youngest son has it too so I'm keeping an eye on him

I do think there are a lot of undiagnosed adults as it just wasn't recognised when I was at school, or at least very rarely. Even more so for girls so there are many many women my age now finding out that they have had this condition all their lives without knowing it but have been constantly overwhelmed and exhausted and just thinking they're crap at being an adult! It is quite a rollercoaster being diagnosed because you grieve for what could have been....

ASD is generally under diagnosed in girls/women because girls tend to copy 'appropriate' behaviours more readily. It also presents differently in girls - more mental health issues/OCD/ anorexia.

I was diagnosed with dyspraxia as a child. It doesn't exist anymore and I don't think I'd have met the criteria for developmental coordination disorder. I have sensory issues and struggled with friendships as a youngster.

I think if you've got a collection of symptoms that might warrant a diagnosis it is worth seeing a GP and ask for a referral. There are occupational therapies that work.

For all the bollocks he talks, I think that Simon Baron-Cohen is spot on with his description of broader autism phenotype.

I come from a very autistic family and have two boys who are moderately and severely autistic. On the surface I am articulate and organised. I have academic success behind me but when I finally didn't fuck up an interview, came unravelled in the world of work. I'm a extreme Introvert and have all sorts of sensory foibles. I can perform a role to an audience but it wipes me out. I alternate between rabbit in the headlights silence and not being able to shut the fuck up.

I didn't have any friends at school until I was 13. I don't have any now. Not face to face ones.

I function, sort of, though, and through obsessive dogged determination, keep this family ticking over. This past year and a bit, when I've been deprived of solitude and trying to co-exist with a husband with similar issues, is the closest to completely unravelling I've been, though.

Part of the problem is that women are forced to socialise from an early age. A girl is at the edge of the playground, the adult on the playground will almost always put her with a group of other girls. A boy is ‘allowed’ to be a ‘loner’. Add to this that girls early play is often based around social skills: pretend tea parties, families with dolls etc.so societal conditioning makes it harder to spot women on the spectrum. It also makes it harder to work it out for ourselves - we’ll I manage this and that, stressful but I’m doing what everyone else is doing. Only we’re not, we just learnt to mask early and the second we are on our own the panic, over analysis etc starts. Or, we’re totally unaware. Or we are aware but other people are so conditioned that they’re too polite to help us. I’m almost 63, but in my twenties I’d say to people’ you have to Chuck me out when you’ve had enough because I don’t know. And of course they didn’t and Ivwas unaware until they got irritable. I now have a one and a half hour time limit!