AIBU to be surprised that Laurel Hubbard didn't register a lift in the Olympics?

[Gladiolixoxo]

I wonder if all the controversy around Laurel's participation led to her losing her nerve?

So a person shouldn't take any personal responsibility at all for their actions even if those actions are morally questionable?

I do have sympathy for the transwoman here (Dick Hubbard seems a bullying homophobe),
I have sympathy for lots or people but don’t think that means they are allowed to compete in the Olympics as a woman.

@Shitfuckcommaetc

I think people sometimes forget that behind all the hoohaa there is a real person. Laurel Hubbard did not make the rules that allow her to compete, she personally should not be blamed for that.

I think all the media (& social media) fuss, and comments must have done a number on her self esteem, and I wouldn't be surprised if mentally she wasn't able to be compete to the best of her abilities.

Or maybe she's just middle aged, overweight and carrying an injury. Not dissimilar to myself. Only difference is that I didn't decide to push a dedicated athlete at the peak of her fitness from her spot to validate my feelings and prove a point.

There are loopholes in every law, its a choice to jump through them.

@Itsanewdah

Why is she a cheat? Are long legged people cheats in comparison to short legged ones? All tall ones cheats? Or short ones? One things is however clear - being mean is always just that - mean.

Yeah being mean is always mean. It's pretty mean for a biological male who has previously had a career as a male weight lifter to take opportunities from a talented young female . Funny how these blokes don't worry so much about being mean?

How did her selection work? People talk about which athletes she might have displaced, but I don't know whether that means a New Zealand woman that was lifting better than LH but didn't get chosen? Or women not lifting at that level, but would have gained from Olympic experience? Some people have mentioned women from other island nations that were displaced too - how does that work? (obviously I understand how they would be displaced from the medals if LH had won) - but from selection? Does that meant there were only a limited number of places available, dependent on the results of other competitions or something, rather than a certain number of places per nation?

It seems totally wrong, and unfair on those who might have missed out on a place in the Olympics as a result, but even more so, for those who might later on miss out on both places and medals as a result of transwomen who are more likely to win now being allowed in.

@Itsanewdah

So, somebody who got likely bullied all her life (reality for many trans people), and excessively bullied before the competition didn’t manage to perform according to expectations. The result is - more bullying. Its an amazing world we live in, isn’t it.

Oh give over Hubbard had no business competing as a woman in these games. Hubbard is a cheat. Hubbard brought this attention on them self. This is such a feeble argument to make. This is a grown adult of 40 plus years, not a vulnerable teen.

Fact is, whatever physical shape Hubbard was in when qualifying, it's easy to tweak something when you're an overweight middle aged person of either sex. Which is one reason why people don't generally compete in their mid 40s.

@Itsanewdah

Why is she a cheat? Are long legged people cheats in comparison to short legged ones? All tall ones cheats? Or short ones? One things is however clear - being mean is always just that - mean.

Because Hubbard is a biological male competing against females. HTH

@Shitfuckcommaetc

I think people sometimes forget that behind all the hoohaa there is a real person. Laurel Hubbard did not make the rules that allow her to compete, she personally should not be blamed for that.

I think all the media (& social media) fuss, and comments must have done a number on her self esteem, and I wouldn't be surprised if mentally she wasn't able to be compete to the best of her abilities.

Literally could not care less about the hurty fees of a middle aged cheat

Laurel looked pretty smug at the end I thought. Not the demeanour of one who had worked for years to get to the olympics and failed to even lift. I think they threw it tbh.

@SCMocha

How did her selection work? People talk about which athletes she might have displaced, but I don't know whether that means a New Zealand woman that was lifting better than LH but didn't get chosen? Or women not lifting at that level, but would have gained from Olympic experience? Some people have mentioned women from other island nations that were displaced too - how does that work? (obviously I understand how they would be displaced from the medals if LH had won) - but from selection? Does that meant there were only a limited number of places available, dependent on the results of other competitions or something, rather than a certain number of places per nation?

It seems totally wrong, and unfair on those who might have missed out on a place in the Olympics as a result, but even more so, for those who might later on miss out on both places and medals as a result of transwomen who are more likely to win now being allowed in.

There are limited places for each country so when one place is taken by someone who isn't female a female athlete doesn't get to go.

I like how questioning if a biological man should be competing against women is bullying.

I would have more sympathy for LH if they had done more than take some drugs to lower their testosterone for a year to qualify. Since LH declared themselves as a women there has been ample time to get surgery. Unlike millions of trans around the world, LH. is in a fortunate position to afford to pay for surgery.

Having a woman's name and testosterone levels at 10 does not make a woman.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have been asked to take a dive considering the IOC over the weekend admitted the policy is out of date and levels in addition to safety should also be considered.

And if I was one of the women who had been disqualified for having higher readings than other natal women I would be asking for my medals back once LH was allowed to compete regardless of them tanking or not.

But how does that mean she displaced Samoan women or some of the other things that have been reported? Displacing New Zealand women, yes, I understand that has happened, although even there, I wonder how it is possible that LH displaced someone who could lift those weights, if LH could not and did not even manage to finish.

Yes I too think that they threw the competition, so that there would be less attention on the fact that biological men have serious advantages, and more attention on the 'making history' part of things.

But how does that mean she displaced Samoan women or some of the other things that have been reported?

I'm not up on the geo politics of the pacific islands but maybe Samoa competes under New Zealand as it's such a tiny country? I'm not sure. I'm going to google now and find out!

@Shitfuckcommaetc if Lauren had any morals she wouldn't be competing against women so I have no sympathy

Wikipedia says that New Zealand is home to a large Samoan population so possibly people are referring to ethnically Samoan women with New Zealand nationality

oh maybe, that would explain it.

@Shitfuckcommaetc couldn’t agree more. i see a lot of nastiness here, and a lot of people throwing stones while sitting in glass houses

@Itsanewdah because 30+ years of being a man, and a male weightlifter, gives them an advantage. And following the blind rhetoric that it makes absolutely no biological difference when they suddenly decide they want female pronouns is terrifying, absurd, and ridiculous.

@Itsanewdah

Why is she a cheat? Are long legged people cheats in comparison to short legged ones? All tall ones cheats? Or short ones? One things is however clear - being mean is always just that - mean.

So if I identify as an amputee then I can enter the paralympics by your definition.

I agree. being mean is being mean though.
Although I'd also say putting yourself in a category that you shouldn't be in which means someone who genuinely should be there won't be, is exceedingly mean and selfish.

@Tippexy

Someone put this on another thread and I think it’s spot on:

If they lost on purpose, they can now stand as an example of why transwomen don't have a natural advantage and what are all the transphobes complaining about.

The fact it was an averagely talented, over privileged, obese, over the hill, 40 odd year old man competing without proper preparation will be forgotten about and 'by the by' in no time at all.

Couldn’t agree more.

If we want to compare like for like we need a middle aged woman who has recently broken their arm and a penchant for Greggs.

It's another slap in the face for Samoan women considering the abuse they encounter due to their sex. These women have already been victims of men. Suffer low self esteem and more as a result.

Who are the Somoan girls supposed to look up to if men are taking their places in sporting events? Or doesn't it matter because it's a small Island, woman of colour etc?

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/03/family-abuse-epidemic-uncovered-in-samoa

thecommonwealth.org/media/news/blog-samoa%E2%80%99s-response-violence-against-women-and-girls-can-guide-other-countries

Just for those who aren't aware, Laurel is able to have much, much higher levels of testosterone than a woman, even if it is medically reduced. A woman with the levels of testosterone allowed in a transwoman would be disqualified for doping. A transwoman who reduced to the levels of a woman would have massively reduced performance. The advantage of testosterone is in addition to the advantages of a male body (bigger lung capacity as one example).

The website www.boysvswomen.com shows the advantage starkly. Laurel would not have qualified for the Olympics in the correct sex class.

The reasons Laurel is performing poorly are - Laurel is on average 20 years older than the other competitors and has also recently suffered an injury.

It's a bit of a masterstroke by TRA's to be honest. Laurel will likely lose and this will be held up as a reason for 'inclusivity' as 'women can beat transwomen!' without taking into account the reasons why.

Women's sports are not a retirement option for mediocre males.

Well, when push came to shove Hubbard was not as good as the other women, possibly due to age (and the utter shitness of the lifts).

BUT what if the next Hubbard isn't 40 odd, but 20 odd, and not out to make a point enabled by the IOC's ability to take a position based on the basic starting principle of a level playing field.