At the end of my tether, 2 y/o and crap sleep

[Florencenotflo]

I honestly don't know what to do. I've tried everything I can think of, but this feels like torture. I've barely had 5 days off sick in my whole career so far but I'm heading towards getting signed off work with exhaustion. Either that or I think I will have a breakdown soon.

My Dd is nearly 2, but the last 7/8 months her sleep is awful. She goes to bed fine, we do bath, book and bed with her big sister. She has a cup of milk and a cuddle and she is generally asleep within 5 mins so I put her in bed. She has never gone to bed awake. Always asleep by 7:30, awake anywhere between 4:45 and 5:30 at the latest.

But the last 7/8 months she is waking at night for up to 3 hours! Some nights she goes back very quickly but others (like last night) I was up from 12-2 with her in our bed. But she won't go back in her cot unless she is fully asleep. When she's awake she's not in pain, not hungry (I have offered another cup of milk and water previously), doesn't need a nappy change, not too hot or cold as far as I can tell. She doesn't even cry. Just shouts for me, then once i bring her in our room, she just lays there cuddled up, wide awake.

I tried co-sleeping, but I wasn't keen. She fidgets too much, plus our bed isn't big enough! And no spare at the moment.

I just cannot do this any more. DH has tried to do his share of the night wakings, but he works shifts so obviously can't when he's not here, but because Dd has got used to it being me she screams blue murder if DH tries to comfort her. DH does pretty much everything else around the house now because by the time I finish work, eat and sort the kids out with a bath (he gets home just after 6) I'm done.

DH has suggested taking her to the doctors, but what for? I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with her, she's just a shit sleeper.

Any advice? Things I forgot to mention, she has a nap during the day, around 2 hours if I let her wake up naturally. She's very active, eats fine. Has blackout curtains in her room. I'm sure I've forgotten something.

She needs to go from awake to asleep in the cot.

Thats the beginning and end of it. It will solve her sleep issues.

Keep repeatedly lying her back down. Get tough, you know best.

So you're putting her to bed awake?

Babies, and toddlers, expect to go to sleep the way they go to sleep. So if you're putting her down asleep it makes sense she expects your help to get back to sleep. She likely can't connect her sleep cycles when she wakes up because you assist her to sleep, so when she wakes she wakes properly and is stuck awake. If she could put herself to sleep she might rouse a bit, or even wake, but then be able to go back to sleep.

I'd get really firm here. Make her room a safe space where there's nothing she can hurt herself on, say goodnight and tell her you love her, and then shut the door (with a camera so you can see she's alright). Then leave her to it. She will learn that bedtime means it's time to go to sleep and calling for you won't get you in there giving attention, it's not time for play or cuddles it's time for sleep or at least laying quietly in bed.

There's a great facebook group called Respectful Sleep Training/Learning, I recommend posting on there for advice if you want some further support from people who've tackled this. She's still tiny, you can do this.

I also have a rubbish sleeper op. It almost broke me , I was literally a zombie every day , and had hideous aches and pains due to lack of proper rest. My solution isn't one everybody will agree with , but we just bought a bigger bed. We went from double to superking. It's a made a huge difference. Ds now climbs in beside me when he wakes and we all go back to sleep.

I know you say that it's too expensive , but you need sleep , and you clearly can't carry on like this. Eve and Otty have 0% finance on their beds if that helps at all.

Try an age appropriate magnesium supplement.

Mine was similar. I ended up talking to our HV who gave us some guidance that worked really well.

First, DD had to go to bed awake.

After that the main thing was to be really boring at night and give her no rewards for waking up. No attention, no getting out of bed, no drinks, no water, no snacks...

When she woke we'd say the same phrase over and over. We'd pat her but not get her out of bed. We'd go back every few minutes and again pat her and say the same thing then leave.

It took about 3 weeks till she learnt to self-settle, and she then became by far the best sleeper in the house.

It did really help me to have the advice from the HV, because I didn't wake in the middle of the night and wonder what to do, or second-guess myself. I just did what the HV suggested.

Oh, we also cut her nap from 2 hours to an hour or less around the same time, which definitely helped.

Agree with PPs that it would be better to get her used to going to sleep alone at the start of the night. Do you also cuddle her to sleep for her nap? If so, maybe start with that.

What would happen if you stopped taking her into your bed at night and just keep repeating that it's nighttime and time to sleep now, without taking her out of her cot?

Gro clock (with star chart if necessary) might be worth a shot. Also persisting with DH doing some of the night wakings when he is available. Sounds like she's got too used to having mummy all to herself at night and thinks that's more fun than sleeping! It doesn't matter if she doesn't like him coming instead at first; she's not a tiny baby, and will learn to cope with daddy coming instead while you catch up on much needed sleep, even if he can't always be there to do that.

GP might be overkill, but you could try health visitor for advice if you have one?

If you think she's genuinely not tired and that's why she's not sleeping then I would cut the nap.

I feel your pain. My DS didnt sleep through until he was 3. I was working full time and studying and it nearly broke me.

I tried everything. He came out of nappies (day and night) and he slept!

It is so exhausting. But she will sleep through eventually.

Does she nap? I would start with getting rid of the nap.

Being able to self settle at the beginning of the night should help a little bit it won’t necessarily solve the night wake ups. I would try what GuitarSolo suggested.
I am not a fan of the respectful sleep training Facebook group that has been recommended. I actually think lots of their advice is pretty cruel/extreme. Leaving tiny babies to scream for hours upon hours at night, even newborns. Ignoring babies who have screamed so much they are sick (and suggesting they are doing it to manipulate). I think groups like that give sleep training a really bad name because it doesn’t have to be brutal and you can still be responsive and sensitive to your child’s need whilst holding the boundary that night time is for sleeping.

DS was going through a phase of waking with night terrors, HV suggested disturbing his sleep cycle, so now he goes to bed 7:30/8 and when we go up around eleven we just pat him and tuck him in again, he doesn't wake up but he does murmur and turn over and no more night wakings! (It's still fairly early days but it has worked every night so far). She said it shifts the deepest part of the sleep cycle and if they wake during that it's harder for them to resettle. We think it might've been us going to bed brushing teeth etc that disturbed him as he was waking regularly about an hour after we'd gone to bed regardless of what time we'd gone

Thank you for all the advice, I really do appreciate it. I had a quick read through earlier, but I will read properly in a bit.

Well tonight was a semi success maybe. I gave her, her milk as normal. Had a quick cuddle on my bed like normal then moved her into her own bed. (She's still in a cot for now). She was not happy. To start with I tried sitting on my bed and going in to calm her down with the intention of leaving, but that seemed to make her worse each time I left.

So instead I stood next to her cot, rubbing her back until she calmed down enough to lay down. I sat on the floor in the end holding her hand. So I'm not sure that's any better than what we usually do? But we'll see.

In all I'd say it was about 20 mins of hysterical screaming and crying and about 10 mins once she'd calmed down for her to actually fall asleep. Possibly less, it seemed like she went off quickly, but she was probably worn out from crying. And now I feel slightly awful that she's cried herself to sleep, albeit with me holding her hand.

That's a great start OP . Keep doing that, stay with her, and once she is used to going into her cot awake abd falling asleep with you patting her back, withdraw a little. Even if you sit with your hand on her but no patting. Gradually offer less help. I dud this REALLY gradually with dc1 . He went from never having fallen asleep in his cot, to me putting him in after bedtime routine, and leaving the room, in about 2 months . I took it very slowly. It helped no end with night wakings.

Also, in all liklihood she cried because she was CROSS. You were there comforting her

Neither of mine slept through until they were 2& a half so probably not best placed to give advice but feel your pain!

Things that did make a massive difference were cutting out naps altogether, a later bedtime (8.30) which meant a later waking time in the morning (we did this with DS2 when the clocks changed one year, just kept his bedtime the same and ignored the clocks changing!).

I think you’re right though about some babies/toddlers being shit sleepers, we tried everything bar crying it out (which I wasn’t comfortable with due to the cortisol levels research) but in the end they did both sort it out & now it’s all a distant memory - hopefully will be for you too soon

Dd1 was (in hindsight) an easy baby. I did similar with her, and around 12 months decided she needed to go to sleep on her own, and she did. The first night we tried. So to now have one that struggles is all new to me.

As selfish as it sounds, I can't really do much later than 7:30 bedtime. I have to work in the evenings to make up my hours to full time. DH does dinner and clearing up, but ideally I'd be logged on by 8 ish to get 2 hours in 4 times a week. The early wakings aren't such an issue a d that does get better with the darker mornings. But I need to be up by 6 during the week anyway to get ready for work etc.

I will keep reading though!

Cut the nap!

Following as my 2 year old has suddenly become a terrible sleeper. She has always gone to bed awake at 6:30pm, slept through to 7am with a 2 hour lunchtime now.

She is now refusing to go to bed, has dropped her nap and is waking for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night. She screams the house down in rage at being left in her cot and wants to come in my bed, but cosleeping doesn’t work as she gets excited and wants to play rather than sleep.

You need to cut the nap.

My advice would be stop the nap completely and keep working on going to sleep in her own bed.

I'd also advise getting a single bed for her with a lovely soft mattress so really cosy and a bed guard so she can't fall out. Way way comfier than a cot and she may feel 'more grown up' and excited to sleep in a proper bed and this new bed can go with a new routine that she has stories in her own bed and she stays there whebbstory finishes and you say night night and leave the room. Going back in if needed but just repeat 'its bed time' and nothing else.
Good luck!!

*when story finishes

@3WildOnes

Being able to self settle at the beginning of the night should help a little bit it won’t necessarily solve the night wake ups. I would try what GuitarSolo suggested. I am not a fan of the respectful sleep training Facebook group that has been recommended. I actually think lots of their advice is pretty cruel/extreme. Leaving tiny babies to scream for hours upon hours at night, even newborns. Ignoring babies who have screamed so much they are sick (and suggesting they are doing it to manipulate). I think groups like that give sleep training a really bad name because it doesn’t have to be brutal and you can still be responsive and sensitive to your child’s need whilst holding the boundary that night time is for sleeping.

Good god 😞

I cannot imagine being able to actually physically do that. It must be stressful enough for the parent never mind the baby.

Good grief yes agree, don't leave them crying. They need to feel secure and that you are there if they need you. Pick up put down worked for me with my 1yr old, where you always pick up and cuddle when they cry or if bit older and dealing with a toddler you go into room to soothe, but you keep talking to minimum and after they are soothed you put them back into bed and repeat it's bedtime and repeat!! But I agree you don't need to leave them crying. Please don't do that!