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"I have done my own research"

121 replies

MareofBeasttown · 25/06/2021 09:54

Didn't want to put this in the coronavirus board because it's got so weird there. But just wanted to ask if I am the only one who does not do my own research in areas that I have no expertise in? I take expert advice and trust it will be fine.

I consulted my GP to ask if I should take the vaccine since I have no hope of understanding all the science behind the vaccine. Then I took it.
I go to lawyers if I have legal problems.
I have a financial consultant to help me with investments.

I am not saying none of these are ever wrong.DD had an illness that was not picked up by the family doctor, so I got a second and third opinion. But it was still better treated by a doctor than it would have been by Googling and trying to decipher medical journals on my own.

Am I just a lazy sheep?

OP posts:
SJK34 · 25/06/2021 12:40

@MareofBeasttown

Right? My dad was a doctor as well, so I perhaps don't have the mistrust of the medical establishment that many do. He had no patience for Googlers.
I have a similar background and strong trust of the medical community, but have also felt the need to take some personal initiative. My son had a health condition where the GP googled it in front of us and gave us some very outdated advice which has since been contradicted by every other health professional. It was a relief to find a doctor who had the knowledge and competence to take that responsibility from me. I don’t want to do my own research and read medical journals, it’s not my field.
LadyPoison · 25/06/2021 12:46

I always do my own research on pretty much everything, not just medical matters. My GP treats me as the intelligent adult I am and we discuss any treatment he suggests as there are usually more than one possible option and after all it is me that has to live with the outcome.

We need to start taking responsibility for ourselves much more

(and yes I've had both covid jabs)

FeistySheep · 25/06/2021 12:48

I actually think people SHOULD do their own research, as the only person responsible for yourself is you. However, it is very important to read the right research! That is the issue really.

Eg, for years I ate butter, despite 'experts' telling us that margarine was much healthier. I had done my own research. Now they've done a U-turn, and butter is supposed to be better than margarine again. So I was right to research myself on that one. It may be on some things I am wrong, but I take responsibility for that. I am responsible for me.

I researched the vaccine, took care to understand how mRNA works etc, and decided to have it.

Generally I would listen to the expert advice, then go home and do my own research to check they are correct.

Another issue is that sometimes expert advice is not appropriate for everyone. It can be tailored to 'the greatest good for the greatest number of people', and that's fine unless you have an unusual factor that affects you personally and which means that what is good advice for 99% of people is actually bad advice for you.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

alloalloallo · 25/06/2021 12:52

It does drive me nuts.

We have an anti-vaxxer at work who does his own research. He thinks it’s all a con and calls in a scamdemic. His research seems to consist of watching YouTube videos and belonging to various FB groups full of like minded people

I’m not a vet/doctor/solicitor/etc so I take advice from people far more qualified than I am

That said, my daughter has Tourette’s and I have done a lot of research. Even DD’s paediatrician isn’t particularly clued up on it.

hamstersarse · 25/06/2021 12:54

I find it amazing people don’t do their own research. Bonkers.

Ivermectin for example, one very good reason not to trust our current covid experts. This could have all been over a year ago if ivermectin had been used. Literally.

You will call me a conspirator right now and I’m comfortable with that, time will tell.

LivingDeadGirlUK · 25/06/2021 12:56

I research things all the time, but I've never been in a situation where I've had to defend myself by telling people 'I've done my research!'.

It's a phrase that conjures up images of covid deniers and MLM hun bots. I think the reason for this is because its always said so defensively.

godmum56 · 25/06/2021 13:02

@hamstersarse

I find it amazing people don’t do their own research. Bonkers.

Ivermectin for example, one very good reason not to trust our current covid experts. This could have all been over a year ago if ivermectin had been used. Literally.

You will call me a conspirator right now and I’m comfortable with that, time will tell.

Ivermectin is being trialled and works in vitro.....problem is that the in vitro dose is enough to kill people. www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30464-8/fulltext

ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial

hamstersarse · 25/06/2021 13:11

@godmum56

Yes, Oxford are now investigating. 18 months later.

Until this point, it’s been dismissed as a crank thing cos Trump said it.

It’s a very cheap drug out of patent with a 50 year safety record...yet....nothing other than active disinformation on repeat from the experts.

knittingaddict · 25/06/2021 13:12

@hamstersarse

I find it amazing people don’t do their own research. Bonkers.

Ivermectin for example, one very good reason not to trust our current covid experts. This could have all been over a year ago if ivermectin had been used. Literally.

You will call me a conspirator right now and I’m comfortable with that, time will tell.

www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

We'll see, won't we. I wouldn't go holding your breath.

Like all drugs and vaccines research is required to test it's potential to work and what the side effects are. Are you suggesting that they should have gone ahead without testing? Should they have done that with vaccines too? I didn't think you were a fan of treatments that weren't rigourously tested.

Musmerian · 25/06/2021 13:13

I think it depends what it is. With pregnancy and childbirth it became clear to me very quickly that the ‘experts’ were not always right and there are many issues around women’s health where doing your own research is vital as GPs are often clueless and. An actually misinform, ditto Health Visitors. So Peri and Menopause, birth etc I would absolutely do my research. With vaccines etc I do trust the system .

BiBabbles · 25/06/2021 13:14

I try to distinguish between when I've researched something (as in gone to academic papers, source data, areas I've worked in with others to learn how to interpret the data) compared to read/watched something that had relevant information but not an area I know or something I've experienced which yes, sometimes I do trust more than something I've read in the news.

So with COVID, I would say I've read about the disease and vaccine. With the effects of COVID on schools in my area, I have a mix of experience and having done research by working with local Public Health and digging into the data sets. With the changing ideas around Long COVID, it's been a mix with more reading and a bit of personal research as I've interest and experience looking at data in that area from a 'why doctors categorize things as they do and why that matters' rather than a 'why these things can do this damage in that way' where I'm pretty limited.

Not COVID-related, I've had situations with medical professionals where I've brought in or emailed in sources to discuss with them. I spent 5 years misdiagnosed until I emailed in the NICE Guidelines on that diagnosis and asked to discuss with the GP at my next appointment about the treatments listed in it since the NICE Guidelines says I was being put at high risk by not being treated which caused that GP to look over my file to find out even with my many symptoms, my repeated test results were not positive for that diagnosis and did not understand why multiple GPs had told me otherwise. I've had other doctors who just agree to disagree and sometimes they refuse to do anything and sometimes they support with me it even when they disagree I had that with postponing the syntocinon injection with my youngest after having had issues with two previous placentas and my reading suggested that as I've contraindications to other hormone medicines that the reasons I'd had such horrible 3rd stages when given it before might be I fall under the vague 'hypersensitivity to the drug' catchall in its contraindications (and because of its use, syntocinon is a hard drug to tell when it's caused an issue or another factor of labour or the placenta has caused an issue). No certain if that idea is correct, I needed a more hands-on managed third stage because of it but it was much faster, with much less pain (my third stage with a previous child was far worse than pushing her out that had been going on moment before), and no retention so I count that as having worked anecdotally. Many things are a balance of risks and benefits with too many unknown factors rather than one right answer that everyone agrees on.

I do think there can be an issue where 'done my own research' means 'saw a post on Facebook', but there is also an issue when people do discuss actual research get dismissed with 'oh, did you google X?' as a way to dismiss people even when discussing interpretations of peer reviewed papers. With the anti-intellectualism, there is both the any source is equal and thinking they can do the research better as well as 'oh you don't agree, so you must just be googling for biased blogs' which can make it kinda hard to discuss these things. It's become all debate rather than any dialogue.

I'm not usually one for adding things to the curriculum as I think there are too many objectives already, but I do think there would be benefits if some of the science curriculum and efforts in science media on how to read academic papers and the values & limits of some of the different methodology. Some teachers are great at this as are some media sources, but I think the curriculum as it stands and even some mainstream media doesn't really help with that understanding.

godmum56 · 25/06/2021 13:18

[quote hamstersarse]@godmum56

Yes, Oxford are now investigating. 18 months later.

Until this point, it’s been dismissed as a crank thing cos Trump said it.

It’s a very cheap drug out of patent with a 50 year safety record...yet....nothing other than active disinformation on repeat from the experts.[/quote]
as i said, the problem is that the in vitro dose that kills the covid would risk killing the patient.

godmum56 · 25/06/2021 13:24

@BiBabbles

I try to distinguish between when I've researched something (as in gone to academic papers, source data, areas I've worked in with others to learn how to interpret the data) compared to read/watched something that had relevant information but not an area I know or something I've experienced which yes, sometimes I do trust more than something I've read in the news.

So with COVID, I would say I've read about the disease and vaccine. With the effects of COVID on schools in my area, I have a mix of experience and having done research by working with local Public Health and digging into the data sets. With the changing ideas around Long COVID, it's been a mix with more reading and a bit of personal research as I've interest and experience looking at data in that area from a 'why doctors categorize things as they do and why that matters' rather than a 'why these things can do this damage in that way' where I'm pretty limited.

Not COVID-related, I've had situations with medical professionals where I've brought in or emailed in sources to discuss with them. I spent 5 years misdiagnosed until I emailed in the NICE Guidelines on that diagnosis and asked to discuss with the GP at my next appointment about the treatments listed in it since the NICE Guidelines says I was being put at high risk by not being treated which caused that GP to look over my file to find out even with my many symptoms, my repeated test results were not positive for that diagnosis and did not understand why multiple GPs had told me otherwise. I've had other doctors who just agree to disagree and sometimes they refuse to do anything and sometimes they support with me it even when they disagree I had that with postponing the syntocinon injection with my youngest after having had issues with two previous placentas and my reading suggested that as I've contraindications to other hormone medicines that the reasons I'd had such horrible 3rd stages when given it before might be I fall under the vague 'hypersensitivity to the drug' catchall in its contraindications (and because of its use, syntocinon is a hard drug to tell when it's caused an issue or another factor of labour or the placenta has caused an issue). No certain if that idea is correct, I needed a more hands-on managed third stage because of it but it was much faster, with much less pain (my third stage with a previous child was far worse than pushing her out that had been going on moment before), and no retention so I count that as having worked anecdotally. Many things are a balance of risks and benefits with too many unknown factors rather than one right answer that everyone agrees on.

I do think there can be an issue where 'done my own research' means 'saw a post on Facebook', but there is also an issue when people do discuss actual research get dismissed with 'oh, did you google X?' as a way to dismiss people even when discussing interpretations of peer reviewed papers. With the anti-intellectualism, there is both the any source is equal and thinking they can do the research better as well as 'oh you don't agree, so you must just be googling for biased blogs' which can make it kinda hard to discuss these things. It's become all debate rather than any dialogue.

I'm not usually one for adding things to the curriculum as I think there are too many objectives already, but I do think there would be benefits if some of the science curriculum and efforts in science media on how to read academic papers and the values & limits of some of the different methodology. Some teachers are great at this as are some media sources, but I think the curriculum as it stands and even some mainstream media doesn't really help with that understanding.

I don't think it even needs to be science based....the ability to properly take in and analyse a complex piece of information is invaluable! I was going to say "read" but of course much of our information now comes from other media sources. I said it (IIRC) further up this thread but we all need to manage bank accounts and credit cards, read employment t and c's engage with landlords or house sellers, car sellers and so on. I am not saying its a cure-all but i do really believe that less people would be scammed, stolen from or cheated, if they had been taught to think, analyse and be objective.
hamstersarse · 25/06/2021 13:27

That’s not true I don’t think @godmum56

Many many countries are being successful with it. It doesn’t kill you. There have been billions of doses given throughout the world for other reasons with no safety issues. The dose you need is not excessive to be effective. It doesn’t have to be IV.

Here’s an example, Mexico. Low dose of ivermectin.

www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(21)00100-4/pdf

There are many more studies. We’ve just refused to research it and shut down conversations. Censored.

Censorship is a disaster in such a situation but constantly people call for it around Covid for some reason.

Until a few weeks ago you were called a crank for saying it escaped from a lab in China...yet “if you’d done your own res search” you’d have known that for over a year. And anyone with a high profile said it, they were censored by the big platforms.

It’s getting harder to do your own research as the censorship is out of control

Tomatobear · 25/06/2021 13:38

Definitely a thing now. Alongside all this self diagnosis bullshit. Google is both brilliant and dangerous!

My mum is lovely but constantly self diagnosing via Google and 'correcting' her doctors.. they must hate her

BiBabbles · 25/06/2021 13:38

godmum56 I agree that critical analysis is an important skill across many areas.

I just also think that learning how to read research and the worth of different methodologies is also a valuable skill today, especially with so much science "news" saying 'study has shown Y' and then when you finally find the story and it's not saying anything of the sort and is often open about the weaknesses in the methodology to make that sort of claim that the news is pushing out. I know some teachers are great at getting that in as it is a valuable, but it's hard with how stuffed the curriculum objectives are for the time during KS3 & KS4 where the basics of this could developmentally fit.

Rainbowsandstorms · 25/06/2021 13:39

I think it all depends on what sources are being used. I’ve been doing my own research re the second dose of AZ as I’m in my 30s and it would no longer be recommended in my age group. My own research has involved reading the MHRA government report each week, closely following the tweets of a professor in Haemotology who has been right at the forefront of dealing with the rare but very serious clots after AZ, speaking directly to AZ re some of their trial data and keeping an eye on what decisions the experts in other countries are making. I consulted my GP earlier this week who advised I was well informed and had been looking for my information in all the right places. Interestingly he advised that it’s a very difficult decision to make and didn’t try to sway me either way and that at present I’m correct the risk is unknown despite the official guidance being to get the second dose. I think there is a lot to be said for being an advocate for your own health but there is a balance. For example I am far more inclined to trust a professor haematologist than a GP when looking at the clotting issue. One is an expert and one is a general practitioner following generic advice. I think there is a fine balance but I don’t think people doing some of their own research is a negative thing.

knittingaddict · 25/06/2021 13:41

Censorship? When we have access to far more information at our fingertips than at nay time in history?

There is still no clear proof that the vaccine escaped from a lab. Where are you getting your info from?

godmum56 · 25/06/2021 13:43

@BiBabbles

godmum56 I agree that critical analysis is an important skill across many areas.

I just also think that learning how to read research and the worth of different methodologies is also a valuable skill today, especially with so much science "news" saying 'study has shown Y' and then when you finally find the story and it's not saying anything of the sort and is often open about the weaknesses in the methodology to make that sort of claim that the news is pushing out. I know some teachers are great at getting that in as it is a valuable, but it's hard with how stuffed the curriculum objectives are for the time during KS3 & KS4 where the basics of this could developmentally fit.

yes I agree about stuffed curricula which is why i think a broader approach would be better
MarshaBradyo · 25/06/2021 13:44

I heard an interesting genomics professor talk about the unlikelihood of engineered Covid - her explanation sounded very simple. The mapping shows random misprints rather than inserted chunks.

It made me wonder why the opposite theory has been hanging around so long.

MarshaBradyo · 25/06/2021 13:45

Also agree study on how to read stuff - science / media etc is invaluable. We did a lot at university but not everyone gets the chance then

markmichelle · 25/06/2021 14:05

Do please remember when discussing other treatments that Doctors and other professionals are very risk averse. "Do no Harm" is the way they work.
Usually that means they add nothing that is not proven by their peers.
The exception to this has been the Vaccines we are using against Covid. These have had very short tests compared to usual. The approvals are listed as 'experimental' or 'trial. It will be another year before these drugs pass all tests.

Poppins2016 · 25/06/2021 14:27

It's tricky. I suppose it depends what "doing your own research" means. For me, as a pregnant and cautious woman, it meant reading information published by the NHS and RCOG, talking to my consultant and weighing up risks vs benefits based on the evidence and data available.

For others, I suppose "doing your own research" might be consulting opinion based internet forums, for example. That doesn't seem like a sensible approach!

And of course, if I'm being pedantic (😇) I didn't actually do any research. I just read about the research that others have carried out!

I'll add that I am swayed by the fact that GPs (in particular) etc. have let me down in the past and it's proven useful for me to do some reading in certain circumstances other than blindly trust what they've (wrongly) said, particularly about a couple of chronic health conditions I have.

babbaloushka · 25/06/2021 15:14

@Rainbowsandstorms

I think it all depends on what sources are being used. I’ve been doing my own research re the second dose of AZ as I’m in my 30s and it would no longer be recommended in my age group. My own research has involved reading the MHRA government report each week, closely following the tweets of a professor in Haemotology who has been right at the forefront of dealing with the rare but very serious clots after AZ, speaking directly to AZ re some of their trial data and keeping an eye on what decisions the experts in other countries are making. I consulted my GP earlier this week who advised I was well informed and had been looking for my information in all the right places. Interestingly he advised that it’s a very difficult decision to make and didn’t try to sway me either way and that at present I’m correct the risk is unknown despite the official guidance being to get the second dose. I think there is a lot to be said for being an advocate for your own health but there is a balance. For example I am far more inclined to trust a professor haematologist than a GP when looking at the clotting issue. One is an expert and one is a general practitioner following generic advice. I think there is a fine balance but I don’t think people doing some of their own research is a negative thing.
I think your point is very well made, I think people often mistrust GPs and then extend it to other medical professionals, forgetting that no human could know every single medical condition, it's clinical presentation and how to treat it. Or they make a judgement based of rarity, and unfortunately, it turns out the hooves turn out to be zebras not horses. I often have doctors looking up my condition, or asking me to explain it, and that's fine by me, as they're seeing ?0s of patients every day and mine happens to be particularly uncommon.
brokenkettle · 25/06/2021 15:37

It's a difficult one, because not only do you need insight and expertise to really understand information/knowledge on, for example, medical topics, but you also need to know how knowledge develops. You can't just go read one study that you found on PubMed that supports your hunch and take it as the undeniable truth... That's not how "research" works.

Plus anyone with poor information literacy skills is at a disadvantage because they're possibly unaware of how to distinguish between reliable and not-so-reliable information, whether it's biased or current, etc.