This beautiful/amazing/welcoming/friendly Yorkshire I’ve never witnessed

[Agsjsgkahs]

I appreciate this is probably provocative

But I’m from Yorkshire, a shit hole town in West Yorkshire, very close to where happy valley was filmed. I lived there for 18 years and went to school in a neighbouring, and also not great town.

I now live in Scotland, but wherever I go people clock my accent and tell me what an amazing place I’ve come from, amazing to live, couldn’t imagine ever leaving, x,y and z live there. So friendly and welcoming.

The town I am from is inherently racist and the schools are more or less (unofficially) segregated on race lines. Racist language seeps into many conversations, largely but not exclusively, aimed at the Asian community.

I went to a Catholic school in a neighbouring town and even this attracted harassment. My friend who is mixed race (her own description) was called all sorts of horrible slurs and told to go home.

People who claim benefits were hated upon, and most people seemed to think they were paying everyone else’s benefits. (My party trick is to tell them what being a net contributor to society means).

We of course have a conservative MP. And I would say are a new Tory heartland.

I have also lived in North Yorkshire which was not much better, and definitely even more racist and xenophobic.

I’ll give it to the county that it’s green, and maybe parts are nice to look at. Not West Yorkshire.

I have never lived in South Yorkshire or the East Riding so maybe this is the Yorkshire people speak of, but the West Yorkshire I left four years ago and North Yorkshire I left weeks ago certainly isn’t.

So basically, is it just me that’s sick of being told I come from some paradise, that really isn’t

Having lived north and south, with connections to midlands, I would say that there are good and bad in all places.

But the thing that I do find is the north does tend to hold onto the "we're friendly, south isn't" image with a face screwed tight and fists clenched. Maybe "if you don't agree we're friendly I'll give you a fist butty"? type of way.

I walked down to the wood near where I'm currently living on yesterday with my dd. We saw around 8 people and none of them I'd met before and all we had a conversation with lasting a couple of minutes or more. That's normal.
Go to my parents' village and they'll greet the person coming the other way, but won't normally go beyond that.
My grandparents' village would only greet people they they regarded as insiders (so at least 2nd generation living there) and of those, only the families from the right side of the argument about whether Joe ate Harry's pet duck in 1852 or the other way round. (I kind of joke, but there were unforgiven grudges like that still being hung onto passed down through families). Anyone else speaking would get a grunt (unless they were the wrong side of the argument in which case you'd get a turned back).
I'm currently down south, both the above are up north.

That doesn't mean that all villages up north are like that. Just that all over, there are some that are, some that aren't: I imagine that's true of all areas of the UK and probably the world.

Equally well there was the discussion on here about thanking the bus driver. Never been anywhere that isn't standard, except on the buses where you exit from the back, when shouting up the bus when it's full would be rather strange.
Not everyone does it, but the majority do. It's not a north/south divide.

I am lucky enough to be just about white passing which probably has given me white privilege which in Yorkshire is a shield.

I have work so won’t reply for a while.

I want to reiterate my experience is based on that as the daughter and granddaughter of immigrants, the experience of poc who are not white passing is far graver.

I think in Yorkshire there is multiple sides that I maybe didn’t fully appreciate.

I was deliberately vague about details which was probably annoying but if people consider me racist or a bigot or have leapt in defence of W Yorkshire, I hope you can come to realise there is a side to W Yorkshire you may not have realised, and I too have come to realise.

Grew up in a Pennine town and went to school with people from Todmorden and the surrounds.

I definitely recognise the attitudes you're referring to. There was no undercurrent of racism. It's out there for all to see.

@katieak

“But on the whole I think certainly the bigger places like Leeds are more ethnically diverse and there's so much to be gained from that.”

What sort of things? And even if it is diverse, both ethnically, socio-economically and politically, does that equate to people being happier? Or do people tend to still stick to others who are similar to them?

We live in an area which is predominantly white, middle class now. I’m no less happy now than I was when I lived in a more diverse area, in fact there were huge amounts of problems in the area which we moved from, including crime and antisocial behaviour.

Yes, Agsjsgkahs - I absolutely recognise this.

People talk about friendly, welcoming Yorkshire. What they mean is: random people will talk to you in the supermarket, or at the bus stop. It's all totally superficial, strip away the top layer of sociability, and people are extremely insular.

I am from elsewhere in the north, and lived in Calderdale for 10 years before moving to London. After 10 years, I left with not one single close friend. I wouldn't be in touch with anyone I knew there if it wasn't for social media making it easy. Everyone I met, professionally and through hobbies, was already part of a tight friendship group (most of them were born and grew up locally and had been friends since school) and while they were always pleasant, they just didn't want to include anyone new.

I am aware that plenty of people reading this will be thinking 'oh, love - it wasn't them, it's you!' and to be honest, I thought that as well - that is was somehow my fault. Then, when I moved, I was immediately welcomed - at work, through the sport I play, people were genuinely friendly, extending invites with a real 'the more the merrier' attitude. I've made so many close, real friends since moving, I'm absolutely confident that it wasn't me.

Don't get me wrong - many of the people I met in Yorkshire were really lovely. I'd be genuinely delighted to see a good number again. But actually making connections is really, really hard.

So no - in London, strangers don't strike up conversations on the tube. But, actually, that isn't what being friendly is all about.

I think I get what you are saying OP. I'm not from Yorkshire bit I live in a county which includes some very popular tourist destinations and I do find that a lot of people have very unrealistic ideas about it, as they only see the surface, and often a carefully curated surface at that. Of course that is partly the doing of the people who live here, the councils, tourist board etc - nobody wants to spend their holidays touring depressed post industrial towns and it's not exactly a jewel in the county's crown that we have some of the highest measures of deprivation in the country in some of our council wards. Not to mention a fairly major drugs problem, but we hardly publicise that as we want people to visit!
But it can be frustrating as people assume that everyone here is well off, has a "chocolate box" cottage and lives an idyllic rural life which they don't. There are a lot of problems in both the rural and urban parts of the county. Either that, or everyone gets stereotyped as intellectually challenged country bumpkins.
I don't know that there's an "answer". As I said there's actually sometimes benefits for areas to continue to be misrepresented, but I do know how irritating it can be when people tell you about the place where you live and you know its not the truth. But it happens everywhere - its not just a Yorkshire thing. My adult DD lives in Scotland and would, I am certain, say much the same about how people perceive her new home.

I live in the Midlands but have DC’s who have moved to Yorkshire and I love it. I’ve always found everyone really friendly when I have visited.
Now if you were talking about London then that’s an unfriendly dangerous place. Always feel people would rather stab you than walk around you.
Dons hard hat and runs for (Yorkshire) hills.

I grew up in an ex-mining town in the Midlands and I was definitely the outcast. I was born round there but my parents weren't and I never got a local accent.

Thing is my mum is very enthusiastic about how close knit and friendly it is and it was for her after growing up in London.

But for a neurodiverse non-binary introvert such as me it was a different story - like everyone knowing your business can also mean no-one knowing you but making up myths and legends about you to the point that they are surprised when they DO have any sort of interaction with you if you see what I mean. THing is, if you didn't join in with the flock then you were ostracised and doubly so if you were a girl as its the sort of town that people seldom leave, even those who get decent jobs.

It is also rather insular and not very diverse - I think the nearby POW camp helped with genetic diversity. It does have problems with drugs and poverty but there is also a lot of self-hating benefit bashers and it overwhelmingly voted Brexit despite having had a lot of EU funding. Yet people are surprised I left and also only chose Universities >50 miles away - I suppose they miss a scapegoat.

Life is better somewhere diverse and where there is some flow of people - but I can't help thinking that racism and faith schools both fuel segregation.

I know exactly what you mean. My husband is from a town in West Yorkshire and I generally find most of the people there incredibly grumpy, sarcastic, racist, unfriendly and very hostile and unwelcoming towards anyone they see as an outsider. I am from about 40 miles away from where he is from and I am viewed with suspicion by the vast majority of his friends and acquaintances from there because of it.

I'm in South Yorkshire, it's pretty decent! Friendly in the main. I've never spent much time in either West or North though, I've lived here for nearly 40 years!

[quote Agsjsgkahs]@Feedingthebirds1

I am heavily dyslexic so I’m hoping you have misread what I have written and that I have written badly because what I’m saying is it is racist, immigrants in parts of West Yorkshire are excluded from the everyone knowing everyone else club. We are the outsiders and it is made abundantly clear[/quote]
I'm sorry - I did read it wrong. But I live in a similar town in the north west. Our road is a 50-50 mix of white British (including me) and Asian heritage, and we're in and out of all of each other's houses and gardens (Covid permitting) all the time. Probably I was touchy and misread what you meant. Sorry.

My DH is from a little town in Yorkshire. He escaped years ago but his family are cold and parochial and insular. I always feel a coldness there, not just from the family but from the town, there's a bleakness and an untrustworthiness of visitors. They are friendly enough but just no warmth, like there's a little chip missing. I don't like visiting.

@Feedingthebirds1

Thanks for clearing that up. I’m glad that in your town the situation is friendlier and more inclusive. It’s always good to call out racism.

Thanks everyone else for your replies. It’s interesting to read x

Coming from South Yorkshire I can see what you both sides, good and bad.

As for Yorkshire bluntness, I always thought Bill Bryson said it best " you can always tell a Yorkshire man, but you cannot tell him much".

It makes me think of the time when I was growing up and Mum and Dad were having a " disagreement"about something I'd said or done.

Dad " her trouble is she's like you, stubborn"

Mum "aye, and she's just like you, always thinks she's right".

you aren’t being too blunt, but you are being a prime example of what I was talking about and do that thing of hiding behind bluntness.

White people in Britain can’t experience racism because of the direct relationship between racism and power. White people can experience racial prejudice, but it is not racism unless backed by power

Racism in WY against white people is backed by power. Unless you're seriously suggesting that everyone in institutions in a city like Bradford is exclusively white. Nothing could be further from the truth

Reverse racism is a myth but the people of my hometown would adamantly tell me otherwise. You could google this and educate yourself in minutes.

Educate myself? I know victims of racist crimes in WY. Most of those victims are white
You don't think white girls in your county being gang raped while being called white slags is racist? Let alone that they were targeted because of their skin colour

Calderdale is going through its 3rd grooming gang trial ATM. Like the rest of West Yorkshire, these crimes, as well as heroin and people trafficking, is a huge problem for everuone in the met county of WY

How many of those racist heroin trafficking and grooming gangs have been convicted in WY in recent years? It must be dozens by now

West Yorkshire has the highest serious crime rates in the UK.

...but try to discuss any of that and you will be told to shut up and called a bigot, and so it continues. Just like the Jay Report on Rotherham, SY pointed out

@Flaxmeadow

You only need to watch the documentary series, Hometown: A Killing on BBC iPlayer to see who's running W. Yorks.

Sorry I forgot about this thread, but eagerly awaited the response to my daring to correct on the nature of racism @Flaxmeadow

I had typed out a very long paragraph about how those monsters got away with it, how the victims were let down, how they were working class, deprived and vulnerable, combined with an ineffective police force, shite local council to name but a few reasons. But quite frankly, as my sister was a victim who was not white I don’t feel the need to argue with you about it.

I hope your statement comes out of genuine concerns for the victims and that you aren’t, like so many in WY using it to justify your own racism.

Ultimately I agree with some of what you say but think you can’t see past your own bigotry, and after all it’s me that was bashing WY in the first place, i just hadn’t gone into each and every reason

I live in the Holme Valley and do not recognize the west Yorkshire you talk about. I'm mixed race.

[quote thenightsky]**@Flaxmeadow

You only need to watch the documentary series, Hometown: A Killing on BBC iPlayer to see who's running W. Yorks.[/quote]
Well as that documentary was about MY hometown I think I’m qualified to say that your implication is both racist and utter shite

I agree with OP, I'm in West Yorkshire and recognise everything she has stated, and people here are very direct / rude as well.

Sorry I forgot about this thread, but eagerly awaited the response to my daring to correct on the nature of racism @Flaxmeadow**

So you see yourself as an arbiter on morality and that it's your duty to "correct" opinions that disagree with yours?

You think white people can't be victims of racism. I think white people can be victims of racism. These are known as opinions

I hope your statement comes out of genuine concerns for the victims and that you aren’t, like so many in WY using it to justify your own racism

This is an argument in bad faith because you accuse a whole demographic of people in WY of being racist. You seem to want the people of WY to only have an opion on serious organised crime that affects their family, friends, neighbours and wider community, within your strict parameters of what is allowable. Eg WY people can only have your definition of a "good" opinion on something, and if you suspect they don't, then in your opinion, they must be a racist.

Your whole thread is full of unfounded accusation, suspicion, and singling out a certain demographic of millions of people in Yorkshire you have never even met

My mother is from a small town near Huddersfield, she left at 18 and never went back. My grandmother lived in that town all her life and was a disgrace - she complained bitterly about the 'Pakis' and even wrote a letter to the council when they opened a restaurant. But she loved Dr Singh, her GP

thenightsky
You only need to watch the documentary series, Hometown: A Killing on BBC iPlayer to see who's running W. Yorks

Yes the documentary by Mobeen Azhar about West Yorkshire. The amount of money that must be circulating from the profits of the heroin trade is mind boggling.

Journalists have tried to expose organised crime and corruption in the area before, for many decades. The BBC did in the 1980s and 90s. Some of them probably even risking their lives

Im in my 60s born and lived in the same part of West Yorks all my life.

Generalising isn’t helpful about any part of the country imo. I’m 2nd gen British and have come across the whole gamut of people - friendly, unfriendly and in between. This whole Yorkshire folk are the salt of the earth is as inaccurate as all Londoners are unfriendly and won’t look you in the eye/give you the time of day. I’m friendly and find most of the people I come into contact with are often friendly too wherever I am in the UK.