My Son is a crybaby

[Anotheruser02]

Hi, I'll start by saying that I do actually love my Son but this will sound very negative because I want to know what to do about this issue.

My DS is now 9, I don't know if this is a realistic reason for it but he has been very indulged by his Father and his Father's family all of his life, he never learned there that crying won't get him anywhere, but he is only there EOW and half of the school holidays, so most influence is mine which makes me think I may be doing something to encourage this. When he is with me he takes disappointment on the chin mostly (leaves the tech when he's told time is up, comes out to walk the dog every day even when he can't be arssed) pretty much most inconvenient things he'll do even if he sulks a bit at first.
I've noticed recently that he has become known as a bit of a cryer in school, he said that someone called him a crybaby in school (one of the kids) and tbh I'm not surprised. He came out of school crying one day last week and said that the teacher had told him off for talking and that everyone in the line looked at him, so he cried, and then the teacher told him off for crying. He say's he doesn't like his teacher this year as she is very strict, to me she sounds pretty normal, just not flapping around the crying kid trying to appease.

It is a worry of mine because his Father is a very manipulative person and enjoys portraying a poor downtrodden victim and I don't want my Son to take the path of trying to look sad and hoping that everything is given to him too.

He had a friend here for a sleepover in the holidays and they were disagreeing over what to play, I overheard my Son saying to the other child "I'll cry" as if it was a threat or something, that pissed me off and I pulled him up on it, I've also seen my son sulk and pout trying to look sad when he's had friends over before, I feel like it's his default setting or something if someone is around to play for sympathy. My Mum was here yesterday and she wanted to walk into town so after fair warning DS had to put his lego aside and get ready to go out with us, I knew he wasn't happy about it but it's only one errand, I popped outside with the dog before we left, and when I got back in DS had tears in his eyes and my Mum was rubbing his back telling me that ds had a bad back from doing the lego on the floor. I told her that no ds always looks for problems if he doesn't want to do something and someone around could give him sympathy.

Today he has just been to rugby and the fucking face on him every time he was out of a game or did something wrong and had to be told, it was embarrassing, he cried twice and once had to be told by the coach that "everyone is learning" because of his sulky face!! It's like he takes everything very personally or something.
He does have good qualities by the way, I'm just zooming in on this flaw, which I think is getting worse as he gets older not better.

Ah I have no advice, sorry! Just that I knew a crybaby at the kids school once, he was definitely known as the crybaby, would sulk over not getting his way... you have my sympathy!

I’d cry if I had to play rugby.

“It is a worry of mine because his Father is a very manipulative person and enjoys portraying a poor downtrodden victim”

All you can do is ignore the negative attention seeking and give praise for wholesome behaviour.
I would have a word with the school as well, to get them on board with positive reinforcement for balanced responses and ignoring victim behaviour.

I totally get what you are worrying about. It's manipulative and not something that should be pandered to. He needs to be more resilient, but also not use crying as a threat/ way to get his own way. At his age he should know this and I think it's fair for you to say he needs to stop doing it. He doesn't like being called a cry baby yet he's the one saying he's going to cry! As a teacher of small children, I always say that we don't cry or sulk if we don't get our own way, even if it's disappointing. They do get better at 'losing' and almost need to learn to put on a brave face until it becomes less of an issue.

There are lots of good online tools aimed at children about how to develop a growth mindset. I suggest you look at those. The BBC have some good resources.

Thank you, I'll have a look at that lemonsyellow.

I don't know if it's resilience as such of a habit of behaving in a manipulative way, is it possible to be both?

I thought of emailing the teacher, but it's hard to put down in words without coming across like I really don't like ds.

He doesn't like being called a cry baby yet he's the one saying he's going to cry!

I did point that out to him!!

All you can do is having meaningful conversations with him about his feelings and help him work it out. I have 3 older daughters so I know about emotion. If you continue as you are then he could rebel like most kids do and do the opposite. You don't have a tough child you have an emotional child who has feelings. Help him to understand and eventually he will follow.

Next time you feel that the tears are fake/manipulative then tell him you are ignoring them & do that. I would be annoyed too if I overheard the 'I'll cry' threat to his friend, I might have perhaps thought he was just thin skinned before that. But he knows how to work it! Whinging & crying to get what you want just irritates me...the kind of crying that stops immediately kid gets what s/he wants...just annoying to seeing in action. He's 9 though...so old enough to discuss why you (and many others) do not like that behaviour & you will be ignoring it in future

That's the thing he doesn't do it with me, that's why I feel it's a struggle to stop it, even when he was very young it never got him anywhere and it's never been a thing when he is with me.

If I witness it, I do tell him straight that he can't expect everything to go his way because he cries, I empathise when he feels self conscious, like the being told off by the teacher thing. I just feel like on the whole it is manipulative and he is doing it to other people, not me.

It's like I tell him that shit wont fly (not in those words) and that people don't want to be around people who try to make them feel sorry for them, then he is obviously learning something different to keep it up.

I don't know if it's resilience as such of a habit of behaving in a manipulative way, is it possible to be both?

I guess it depends. If the behaviour was just learned, possibly building resilience might not help. I think he’d ‘just‘ need support to unlearn it.

But given he is not with his dad all that much, maybe it’s coming from a mistaken belief that he somehow isn’t deserving of good or fair treatment and is turning on the waterworks preemptively to even things up somehow. In which case building a bit of resilience and self worth might help.

Nothing wrong with boys showing their feelings and crying if they are hurt, frightened or sad but I hate when children use tears in a manipulate way. Dd used to do this with MIL and PIL and it really wound me up when they pandered to her.

I would approach the teacher and ask for a chat or a phone call. It's easier to get your message across in person rather than writing down and it may be misinterpreted.

Ask for strategies in how he could be supported in finding better ways to communicate and react, rather than sulking or crying. So he doesn't want to go out, he needs to use his words and say why. Then you can explain why he has to/offer a compromise/etc

Thank you, some really good advice here. I know no one is asking, but for the record if he were a girl I'd be equally concerned that she want's to be pandered to, or have peers pacifying her.

I have witnessed his friends trying to 'calm' him before he starts in situations which are not even situations, they shouldn't have to do that, they are the same age.

I'm on the fence, I wouldn't like to hear the threat of a cry to the friend but I've noticed children this age do still cry about things quite a bit. They haven't developed the language to Express those fears fully and are in the cusp I'd say of completely being horrified of doing this in front of other children but still retreating to this form of expressing themselves. My DD is friends who are 9/10 and all of them cry regularly except my DD who is bewildered by all the crying. However, she is quite a tough little thing mentally and would not like the attention crying brings. She doesn't understand why her friends cry about being left out (even if they are not), feeling sick (which is quite regular), teacher telling them to be quiet. She will comfort them but she doesn't understand what the fuss is about mostly.

I don't think there's any need to phone the teacher. Teachers do teach PHSE lessons, support children who can't manage their emotions or behaviour etc but this is a clear parenting issue.

You've got a good understanding of your son and his behaviour but he's been mollycoddled by his father and grandparents so has learned to turn on the waterworks to get his own way. It doesn't work with you and doesn't work with his teacher.

I'd just ignore the tears whenever he's being manipulative. Remind him when they start that it won't make any difference and then just repeat the request in a neutral voice.

If he threatens to cry to emotionally blackmail a friend then pull him up on it like you have done. Say to the friend that you hope your ds won't cry but if he does then the friend shouldn't give in to his demands because he feels sorry for your ds or because he is worried that he will get into trouble for making him cry.

It could take a long time to crack because it works with some of his family but he should realise that it won't work with you or his teacher so eventually he'll realise that there's no point doing it when he's with you or when he's at school.

I think it's important not to make him feel like you think he is a 'cry baby' so it doesn't become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Praise him a lot for showing resilience, or for standing up for himself without using tears (and talking about it in a positive way 'You stood up for what you wanted in a really mature way', not 'See, you did that without crying')

then he is obviously learning something different to keep it up.

Or he might have a fairly deep need that wasn't met developmentally. How old was he when you and his father separated, for example, and how much were his emotional needs around that recognised, acknowledged and worked through at the time? What was the emotional atmosphere he was in leading up to the separation, and was it prolonged? You describe his behaviour as essentially disingenuous, but that's a defence mechanism for something deeply unresolved in his young life. He has learned this behaviour as a strategy for some displacement in his emotional orientation to life that he cannot, at such a young age, be expected to understand without some targeted support. Now he's being labelled a crybaby, but I'd argue that's the easy option for you.

He is crying to get his own way. It is the beginnings of being manipulative . He must be copying the behaviour from someone. Is there anyone within his family who uses crying/gaslighting/silent treatment to get there own way. I know a few with these behaviours. It started as a child and they picked it up from a parent. If you ignore the behaviour and don't give in i.e set boundaries , then he should adapt. Although it seems you do this anyway so it is trying to implement in school.

That's something I've never done, praise comes naturally for me in everyday language, but I've never praised him for resolving things, I need to try noticing that.

Mostly I try to give him space if his friends are here, I'm very aware that at his age my friendships were at the park with friends mostly because we were allowed 'out to play', I try to mimic that space and freedom for them to manage their own situations by having work to do when his friends are here or taking them out to 'run off'. Maybe I need to oversee more.

It may be that he doesn’t know how to resolve things -so he cries. He could easily find things overwhelming if he doesn’t know what to do, or what to try.

@baroqueandblue

then he is obviously learning something different to keep it up.

Or he might have a fairly deep need that wasn't met developmentally. How old was he when you and his father separated, for example, and how much were his emotional needs around that recognised, acknowledged and worked through at the time? What was the emotional atmosphere he was in leading up to the separation, and was it prolonged? You describe his behaviour as essentially disingenuous, but that's a defence mechanism for something deeply unresolved in his young life. He has learned this behaviour as a strategy for some displacement in his emotional orientation to life that he cannot, at such a young age, be expected to understand without some targeted support. Now he's being labelled a crybaby, but I'd argue that's the easy option for you.

He has never known us together, we were apart and friendly when he was born.
There has been a lot of turmoil since then with his Father and Fathers family telling him to lie to me about many many petty things since he was old enough to talk. His Father lies to me, tells my Son to lie to me and is very very manipulative.

@Redjumper1

He is crying to get his own way. It is the beginnings of being manipulative . He must be copying the behaviour from someone. Is there anyone within his family who uses crying/gaslighting/silent treatment to get there own way. I know a few with these behaviours. It started as a child and they picked it up from a parent. If you ignore the behaviour and don't give in i.e set boundaries , then he should adapt. Although it seems you do this anyway so it is trying to implement in school.

Yes, his Father. I have started many threads about him. It's difficult.

We are not on a level where I can ask anything of him, even if it is for the good of DS, because he gets off on doing the opposite of anything I request so he can tell DS to pretend he did what was agreed, or pretends to DS that he is scared of my reaction for doing the opposite.

Would it help to teach more emotional literacy, talk about how to verbally express the 'big feelings' - make it normal for you both to say, I feel embarrassed, I feel worried, I feel nervous - might help with the crying response. Not that there's anything wrong with crying, but if it's becoming disproportionate and he's attracting negative attention because of it..kwim.
The "I'll cry" threat is him asking to be heard, for acknowledgment, I think!
It sounds like you've both experienced some tough times recently.

OP, when I was at school I burst into tears at the drop of a hat. I was always known as a crybaby through both primary and secondary school. I have no idea why I was so emotional, but unfortunately my DD seems to have inherited this trait. Now I cry at the slightest sad event in a film etc, I cry if there is a really happy scene also.
Sorry, not really helpful and I have no advice.