Ebay again - VAT question and Global Shipping Programme, postage charges, EU-related blah blah blah

[tectonicplates]

I'm just a small personal seller (about 3 or 4 items per month). Dunno about anyone else, but today I received this email from Ebay saying that from 1st July, Ebay have to collect VAT on items sent to EU countries.

Does this mean that buyers have to pay VAT on top of the price I've already charged? Like if I sell something for £10, they have to pay £10 + VAT?

Also I've never used the Global Shipping Programme before as I prefer to send parcels directly myself. What should I do about postage charges? I usually give free postage to the UK but charge a few quid to EU buyers just to cover the extra postage. If I use the Global Shipping Programme where I'm supposed to send it to that processing centre thingy in the UK, do I still need to charge extra postage for some reason? And what happens to the higher-priced items that I would previously have sent by international signed for?

This is causing so much confusion, I'm considering stopping all international sales and making everything UK only. FFS.

Sorry, just to explain - I'm being automatically enrolled in the Global Shipping Programme on 1st July, so I don't really have a choice about it. I've always opted out in the past, as I don't see the point of it when I could just send parcels directly myself, so I don't understand how it works with postage charges.

As far as I know the VAT is on the total price (so includes transport costs, insurance).

Wil try refind where I read about it

Any advice, please? My main questions is what postage to charge if I use the Global Shipping Programme. It sounds so complicated.

When you use the Global Shipping Program, Ebay work out how much to charge the buyer, you dont have to do anything. All you do is continue to set your rates for the UK.

Ebay will give you an address which is your nearest shipping centre in the UK. If I'm shipping abroad I use signed for, the shipping centre signs for it and lets Ebay know its arrived and thats it. Its their responsibility from then on.

Do Ebay always get the postage right that they suggest to you, or do they ever leave you out of pocket?

No they get it wrong a lot. You need to learn how much things cost to post, and what sizes are allowed in each category.
The staff at the Post Office counter are usually helpful. Its worth going in when its quiet and writing it down.

Basically the sizes are standard letter, large letter, small parcel, medium parcel.
A large letter becomes a small parcel if its over 25mm thick, and the price jump is huge from about 96p to £3.20
www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2021-03/royal-mail-our-prices-april-2021.pdf

I know how posting parcels and pricing works usually - maybe I misunderstood your earlier reply? When you use the GSP, are you supposed to charge a UK postage price because you're only sending something to a UK processing centre, or are you supposed to charge more for international postage because the GSP charges you? I don't understand how the GSP works in terms of how much postage you can charge customers, or how you pay for it - do Ebay charge you extra? I don't understand how it works on a practical level, apart from physically posting the parcel.

When you send a parcel GSP you just pay for it to go to the warehouse in the UK. The buyer has already paid eBay the extra for the international postage (it shows up on their listing and they pay for it at that point) you will never be charged extra once it’s in Ebays hands.

Ah okay, so my item listing might say £10 with free postage, I would be sent £10 (minus Ebay fees), and the buyer would also pay £4 or something that would go directly to Ebay?

Correct, eBay tend to charge ridiculous postage amounts through GSP though!

It sounds so needlessly complicated, I'm seriously considering stopping all international selling entirely. 90% of my buyers are in the UK anyway, I just don't know if it's worth risking getting bad feedback for things beyond my control.

I thought VAT only applies to brand new things not second hand/used stuff. How complicated.

The email says "eBay will collect VAT on all sales to private individuals, regardless of seller status." Totally ridiculous I know, and I'm definitely selling second hand stuff. I'm just an individual person selling all my unwanted crap, mainly clothes.

@tectonicplates

I know how posting parcels and pricing works usually - maybe I misunderstood your earlier reply? When you use the GSP, are you supposed to charge a UK postage price because you're only sending something to a UK processing centre, or are you supposed to charge more for international postage because the GSP charges you? I don't understand how the GSP works in terms of how much postage you can charge customers, or how you pay for it - do Ebay charge you extra? I don't understand how it works on a practical level, apart from physically posting the parcel.

What I've found with GSP is you need to pay quite a bit of attention when you are listing your item. Make sure you fill out the fields for size of item (box it's going in) and exact packaged weight, it's a bit more work initially as you have to package it up before it's listed.

This is the information eBay use to calculate the shipping price for overseas.

I had no idea early on and my poor customers were being charged far too much resulting in lower sales.

With GSP you as a seller don't get to know how much a customer is being charged. Your part is to post to the distribution centre in the UK. That's it. They do everything else. But sadly it's very expensive for the buyer, about double. And now we have income tax charged on top!

I always opt for my own posting abroad but by the sounds of it I won't be able to do this for much longer.

What I've found with GSP is you need to pay quite a bit of attention when you are listing your item. Make sure you fill out the fields for size of item (box it's going in) and exact packaged weight, it's a bit more work initially as you have to package it up before it's listed.

Oh that is absolutely ridiculous. I never measure items, I just wait until they sell, package it up with whatever packaging I happen to have lying around, then take it to the Post Office which is a short walk away. And some of my stuff takes ages to sell (I have stuff that sits around for months sometimes), so if I package it up first then it'll end up smelling weird.

With GSP you as a seller don't get to know how much a customer is being charged. Your part is to post to the distribution centre in the UK. That's it. They do everything else. But sadly it's very expensive for the buyer, about double. And now we have income tax charged on top!

Well, maybe nobody in the EU will want to buy from me anyway then, as they'll be put off by the cost, and I'll end up never actually using the GSP ;)

I always opt for my own posting abroad but by the sounds of it I won't be able to do this for much longer.

They sent me a big email about it a couple of days ago. Check your spam folder just in case. They said the change is taking place on 1st July.

I fully agree, I think the GSP is ridiculous. It will hardly help anyone get sales abroad. 90% of my sales are overseas so I'm seriously worried.

I'm going to try to find this email to see if there is a way I can still post abroad myself as I've been doing since I discovered the pain of GSP.

Otherwise I'm moving to Etsy.....

Apparently you can do it if you have a click and drop account that's linked to your Ebay account, but I don't have a printer so it's not really possible for me. Technically you can ask the Post Office counter to print stuff for you, but realistically, both my local Post Offices hate being asked, as far as I can see, and they seem to get really annoyed by it.

@Viviennemary

I thought VAT only applies to brand new things not second hand/used stuff. How complicated.

That is correct. A private individual selling their unwanted second-hand stuff is entirely outside the scope of VAT in the UK. I have no idea what the new rules are for items sent outside the UK since Brexit.

If anyone is unsure and is selling overseas, then I'd suggest you look at the HMRC website and familiarise yourself with the new legislation.

That is correct. A private individual selling their unwanted second-hand stuff is entirely outside the scope of VAT in the UK. I have no idea what the new rules are for items sent outside the UK since Brexit.

Ebay have specifically said in their email: "From 1 July, and in line with new legislation, eBay will collect VAT on all goods which are sold through eBay and shipped to buyers in the European Union (EU) with a consignment value up to EUR150. eBay will collect VAT on all sales to private individuals, regardless of seller status. eBay will declare the VAT collected under our Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) number."

I'm in the EU and buy sometimes from eBay. I used to sell as well but it's too complicated/expensive since Brexit because of the VAT issues. I do know the GSP charges wildly inflated prices for international postage (about twice the actual cost) so am put off unless it's something I desperately want that I can only get from the U.K. I don't know if it's possible for you to opt out at all - I have in the past messaged sellers to ask if they can ship direct to me.

It's possible to opt out, but then you're left with very few options on how to actually send the parcel, and you really need to have a printer, which I don't.

@tectonicplates

Apparently you can do it if you have a click and drop account that's linked to your Ebay account, but I don't have a printer so it's not really possible for me. Technically you can ask the Post Office counter to print stuff for you, but realistically, both my local Post Offices hate being asked, as far as I can see, and they seem to get really annoyed by it.

I do have a click and drop account that I use independently as I try to support my local post office with the transactions I make. I didn't realise it was possible to link my eBay account with it.

I can't find the email but I'm reading the help section on eBay and it seems I can still opt out of the GSP. eBay will still charge the VAT on my behalf and I then need to upload their IOSS number or provide it to the carrier so the buyer isn't charged twice.

I'm hoping if I link my post office click and drop account that the IOSS would be automatically transferred by eBay. I'd need to check.

Huge complicated changes that can impact sales for thousands of small traders in the Uk. It's not at all straightforward.

I can't even work out how to set up a click and drop account. It would be so much easier for me to just stop all international sales and make all my listings UK only.

Sorry I only saw the bit about the printer after I posted. How annoying.

This explains the new VAT rule in Europe from 1 July - supposed to make it easier (hollow laugh)

https://ec.europa.eu/taxationcustoms/business/vat/vat-e-commercee_en

It's separate from Brexit-related VAT although the effect on European buyers is pretty much the same. Doesn't mention second-hand goods as far as I can see, although I thought I'd read elsewhere that they are supposed to be VAT free.

Sorry not to be much help. I'm really kicking myself that I didn't get myself in gear and get rid of more stuff last year!

I get the impression a lot of people have opted out of EU sales already!