Is Guides/Brownies really good at building girls confidence?

[toguideornottoguide]

I'm thinking of encouraging my DD9 (nearly 10) to join Brownies or Guides and I'd love to know others experience. DD is very shy and has few friends so I'm looking to see if I can help with this. She also finds school work hard so I'd like to help her find something outside of this that will help build her up.

My DH thinks she'd find it an extension of school - having to fit in with lots of new people and with all the badges etc they are encouraged to do and as a result find it stressful. But I thought it might help her socially. I'd love to know how other people's children find it who are similar to mine?

She already does dance classes which she really likes, but it's not social at all (this might be partly why she likes it). I should add that I did do Guides briefly myself and absolutely hated it so am probably being daft to consider it - they hardly did any activities apart from singing and cooking, and I only hung out with the two friends I'd gone with!

Mine went from Rainbows through to leaving Guides about age 13. She enjoyed it but didn't love it, she wouldn't have gone if her friends from school hadn't been there too, once they all started leaving she did too.

I don't think it did much for her confidence/shyness though, for example she found the camps a bit full on despite being an experienced family camper. She did get to do lots of fun stuff and have experiences that she might not have done otherwise but didn''t really make any new friends, just stuck with the girls she already knew. She has always been the sort to have one or two close long term friends rather than big groups.

That's really interesting @EversoDelighted as she doesn't have any friends that already go that she could tag along with. That would make it pretty difficult for her then by the sounds of it. I'd hoped it would be a way for her to make new friends.

Not really, both of mine went with school friends until about 9 but it wasn’t that great. Brownies is from 7 so by the time they were 9 they felt it was a bit young and left. They didn’t want to go to guides.

Well my two have done rainbows, brownies and now guides and enjoy it very much.
In their unit there is little to no pressure to do anything outside the meetings but they have enjoyed doing the badges that interested them.
The other girls attending have sometimes been acquaintances from school but often not.
I would recommend giving it a try.
It is of course variable depending on the unit and who is running it.

Mine both did Rainbows, Brownies, Guides from 5-15 & enjoyed it. It provided an opportunity to meet girls from the other local schools which was helpful when they went to secondary school. Nearly 10 is possibly a bit old for starting Brownies & a bit too young for Guides plus a very self conscious age! I wouldn't push her if she hasn't said that she wants to go. It's good she's enjoying her dance lessons & that might be enough for her at the mo. If her few friends are good friends that might be all she needs.

When my dd was a shy Brownie I mentioned it to the leader, who was brilliant and made a real effort to make sure she was happy and included. Dd is a Guide now and much more confident, but I don't know how much of that is down to Brownies!

Like a pp, I would say that a lot depends on the leader. This particular one was excellent and very skilled, but others may be less good.

I think it completely depends on what the specific group is like and what the leaders are like. My DD (at that time quite shy) went to brownies and loved it but guides was awful for her. Her guides didn't seem to do many planned activities so it was basically just a load of girls hanging out so as a shy new girl she was not involved very much. She moved to scouts and really enjoyed it- but their sessions were packed with activities which made it much easier for her to get to know the others.

Girls can join cubs/scouts now so if your local brownies/guides doesn't sound right for your DD you could try them

I think with mine she might have gradually made friends if she hadn't already known people. We live in a small town so at any given activity there were always people from the same school there, especially if close to the school - ours had a small catchment so everyone was living close together and going to the same Guides, Scouts etc and as it was a single form school they all knew each other. This did frustrate me a bit as I also felt it would be a good idea to make friends in a wider circle but it never happened. But, she's perfectly happy with her few close friends, she did enjoy all the stuff they did at Guides so it was worth doing. She especially enjoyed some of the more adventurous activities like kayaking in the big group.

I think it completely depends on what the specific group is like and what the leaders are like.

This ^

I 100% think it is important to belong to something and have different groups of friends outside of school.
Whether that is Brownies & Guides, or Cubs and Scouts or GB, or a football team or a drama club or a music group or a youth group of some other kind will vary hugely group by group.

Thanks everyone - food for thought. Can I ask a question when you join do you still get put into a 'six' or whatever it was? (I can't remember) as I thought this might help her get to know those people. Or maybe you don't really get to particularly spend much time with that small group - as this is where I thought she might have a chance of getting to know people. I think she'd find the big group fairly intimidating.

@backforgood I totally agree re having friends and interests out of school too. This really helped me when I was growing up I think.

Have a look at your local Cubs and Scouts - in my experience it’s much more task focussed and there’s far less emphasis on fitting in and friendships per se, which is frankly a massive relief compared to the local brownies and guides.

I am a guide leader and have a DD in Brownies who is also quite shy and has very few friends. There are 2 Brownie packs near us and she ended up at a different one to the other girls from her class at school. I hoped she would make friends at Brownies as she didn't really have friends at school, but she hasn't really. She went away for a weekend with Brownies, obviously a couple of years ago, and came back saying X was her friend but X was older and has now gone to Guides. I think she get on ok with the other Brownies but none of them are her friends but none of them seem to actively leaving her out or being mean to her like at school.
At Guides we have girls from about 8 different schools, and, although we encourage them to mix and get to know everyone else, to be honest they do tend to stick with girls they know from school except when they go to high school and see girls they went to primary school with at guides who they wouldn't see anymore otherwise. We are the only Guide unit locally, so I expect DD's classmates to come to my unit too and I wonder how that will work for her. There is no pressure to do any badges etc at Guides. She will get some badges just by attending and doing activities, because the leaders should plan the programme to ensure the girls do enough of certain elements during the meetings to get them. There are interest badges they can do at home and other opportunities outside of the meeting might be offered, but there is no pressure to do if your DD doesn't want to.

Every unit is different.

Yes, doing activities in small groups is still an important part of the programme. Brownies have 'sixes' and Guides have 'patrols'.

The programme has changed a lot over the last few years to bring it up to date and address things that were problematic. Badges are very much optional extras based on personal interests and goals. Some girls find them motivating and fulfilling, others aren't interested but still enjoy unit activities.

Not every unit camps, some do indoor holidays, some do both, and nobody has to attend them if they don't want to. It's just an offering.

Worst case scenario is she tries it and it's not for her. Best case scenario is she tries it and it's life changing and takes her all over the world making lifelong friends.

What about Scouts - more variety in mixed group clubs and a greater chance of finding activities she enjoys. Alternatively she could try sports ?

@toguideornottoguide

Thanks everyone - food for thought. Can I ask a question when you join do you still get put into a 'six' or whatever it was? (I can't remember) as I thought this might help her get to know those people. Or maybe you don't really get to particularly spend much time with that small group - as this is where I thought she might have a chance of getting to know people. I think she'd find the big group fairly intimidating.

At Guides you get put in a Patrol (I am guessing your DD would start Guides as she is nearly 10 and Guides starts from 10). Some units let new girls pick who they want to be in a patrol with and some units assign girls to a patrol at random to encourage them to mix with a variety of girls not just those they already know. We are currently rearranging the patrols in our unit, as we haven't been able to do much in patrols while we have been meeting online since March 2020. We are asking each girl to name 2 others that she wants to be with and have said we will make sure everyone is with at least 1. It's not easy. When a new girl starts we try and put her with someone she knows from Brownies or school or we ask her if there is anyone she wants to be with. If she doesn't know the other girls, we choose one of our nicer, friendlier girls. We do a mix of Patrol activities, whole unit activities and activities in other smaller groups e.g some older girls will have already done some activities or some will have to complete certain activities to finish a badge so we divide the unit based on who needs to do which activities. But not all leaders run their units in the same way.

Yes, both Brownie and Cub packs have 'sixes'.
How much they do in them varies, depending on the pack. More packs I'd say very little is done in sixes, than packs that do - but you'd only know that if you knew the pack well.
However, many packs aren't huge to begin with. There might only be 10 or so dc meeting. Not all packs are huge.

Am I correct in thinking that boys can now join the Brownies / Guides if they identify as girls?

I'm a Brownie leader and would say it sounds like a good fit for your daughter.

I think it depends on the pack they’re in as all packs are run by volunteers and some will be “better” than others. My friend’s daughter tried 2 guide groups. The first was lots of girly stuff and bake sales because that’s what the group and leader were into but the second was loads of outdoor stuff. The pack leaders took them camping, rock climbing, Sailing etc (at extra cost where needed tbf) and their fundraising was sponsoring fun stuff and car washing. Friend’s daughter loves it all.

Cubs has been brilliant for my shy, unconfident daughter. She is dyslexic and a bit uncoordinated, so doesn't shine in any way at school (that sounds horrible I know... She's just the quiet girl in the corner getting on with things, not getting the top spelling marks or best drawing or being the netball star or winning on sports day. Just the unnoticed one)

In Cubs, she can do all the practical stuff. Look after the new ones. Being trusted. Try all the new stuff.

Both Guides and Scouts have their plus points. The Scout basic programme is online, I presume the Guides one is too. Look together to see what she would prefer.

Or indeed the other groups likSt Johns ambulance. Sea scouts.