Should I move to Winchester, or near family in Birmingham?

[goodnightmush]

Have been going round in circles in my head so hoping for other, more constructive views! I've got two primary aged DC, one in KS1 and one in KS2. We're in a secondary school black hole on the London fringes, and for various other reasons too I've decided to move further out. It will just be me and the DC, and I'll be commuting back into London two days a week.

I really can't decide whether to move to Winchester (great schools, lovely place to live, good if crowded commute for where I work near Waterloo) or to a leafy suburb of Birmingham where we have some family, including a cousin to play with and just generally a "village" to help me raise my kids. I can afford a better house in Birmingham, and if I could get a seat on the train the commute would be just about doable. However it looks like all the primaries are completely full with long waiting lists, whereas in Winchester I think I could get them both into a village school which would just about work and looks nice. Secondary school options are very good in both, although Winch has the benefit of no grammars and possibly a choice of great comps, whereas in this bit of Brum there is just one comp, though very good.

I'd love to live near family, for the kids as well as for me, but am I crazy to go through the hell of no school places, super-long commutes etc? One part of me says go for Brum so the kids can grow up with their family around and I've got a safety net if the trains get really delayed or there's an emergency, the other part says go for lovely Winchester and just find a really great after school nanny (I'm sure they're like gold dust but that's another thread!). What would you do?

Winchester

Do you have a spiritual objection to grammar schools? Or are you assuming your kids won't get in?

I don't have a spiritual objection. We live in a super-selective grammar area now, which isn't great. I think DC2 might stand a chance in Brum (maybe not here as it's crazy), but if DC1 went to the local comp in Brum I think it would be fine. It's more that in Winch we wouldn't have the stress of thinking about tutoring, test prep, etc and there wouldn't be a two-tier system.

I'd say Birmingham, depending on what area of Birmingham or suburbs of Birmingham your looking at. There are definitely some good schools there. Plus you have family there it will help you out in the long run.

Since having my first child, moving back to my home town (although reluctantly) I think it was the right decision for us as we have family close by to help us out.

We had exactly the same decision to make a few years ago when living in Bucks and went for Hampshire, although in our case we have family in both. No regrets and I do love being able to get to the coast easily. Great schools here and no grammar school divide.

There really isn’t a two tier system in Birmingham. We have a bright child and didn’t even enter him for the exam, because the comps are great, this isn’t an uncommon approach. It’s very much just that grammar is an option rather than a two tier system.
Having said that, I love Winchester. Birmingham is practical, particularly with kids, but nothing really special or picturesque.

Have you priced up the commute from both places?

I'm waiting for both train companies to reveal the fares for their flexi-season tickets (8 days out of any 28). I imagine Birmingham will be more expensive, but then childcare will be cheaper because the DC could be with family after school, although I'd still need a part-time nanny for early mornings and maybe to pick them up from school if they're spread across different primaries in far flung parts of Birmingham. (Versus a part-time nanny until bedtime in Winch, but with easier mornings and hopefully just one school to drive to).

Winchester! Much nicer place in my opinion and unless you are on the same street as cousins they won't see each other that much especially during term time when everyone's busy with activities.

How long is the commute (door to door) from each? I live further down the line from Winchester and commute to London a couple days a week in normal times. It’s 3 hours door to door, which is fine because I have Dh at home to do all the stuff while I’m in the office. A similar commute would be tough without support but say 1.5-2 hours would be more doable.

It depends on the connecting trains for Birmingham, but I'd guess the door to door commute would be roughly 2h30 for Birmingham and 1h40 for Winch. I don't know if commuters tend to get seats from Birmingham in the morning, but I know Winchester tends to be really busy. If I got a seat I could work on the train. (Sorry for all the dull detail - this is what it's like in my brain all the time!) Thanks for all your thoughts though, really helpful to chat it through even if I'm still massively undecided.

I’d go Winchester with that commute; and I love Birmingham. The train is a nightmare in normal times and 2.5 hours is crazy... I always had dreams of working on the train from Brum to London and I think it happened about four times in three years.

@TakeYourFinalPosition

I’d go Winchester with that commute; and I love Birmingham. The train is a nightmare in normal times and 2.5 hours is crazy... I always had dreams of working on the train from Brum to London and I think it happened about four times in three years.

This is really useful - so was the train too busy for you to get a seat and table? I wasn't sure if it started in Birmingham or if it came from further up the line.

Winchester.

Birmingham. It has so much more to offer than Winchester. It is much more diverse and there is a lot to see and do. It's also (obviously) much more central.

In Birmingham, whichever way you go, you'll be at the beach or in the countryside within an hour.

Winchester. No competition. You are less than an hour on train to waterloo. And 35 minutes to the New forest and coast. It's bliss living here. Great walks. South Downs way literally starts here. Good culture and stuff going on and schools are good.
I've raised 3 kids here and they love it. Can walk into town and it's just gorgeous.
Also the history here too!! So lovely

@goodnightmush

It depends on the connecting trains for Birmingham, but I'd guess the door to door commute would be roughly 2h30 for Birmingham and 1h40 for Winch. I don't know if commuters tend to get seats from Birmingham in the morning, but I know Winchester tends to be really busy. If I got a seat I could work on the train. (Sorry for all the dull detail - this is what it's like in my brain all the time!) Thanks for all your thoughts though, really helpful to chat it through even if I'm still massively undecided.

What journey is that? New Street to Euston is around 1 hour 30. I'm outside of Birmingham (around 40 minutes on the train). If I wanted to be in London for 9am, I'd get the local train at 6.45am. So 2 hours 15.

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Birmingham. It has so much more to offer than Winchester. It is much more diverse and there is a lot to see and do. It's also (obviously) much more central.

In Birmingham, whichever way you go, you'll be at the beach or in the countryside within an hour.

Countryside yes but there is no beach within an hour of Birmingham!

I love Brum and live just outside it. Family support would be worth a lot to me but a five hour round trip commute is insane. It sounds like you know about the school situation but don’t underestimate just how mad it is. There are some big admissions black holes in places like Kings Heath.

Unless you count the lakeside ones at Cotswolds Water Park I suppose.

If you only have to do the commute 2 days per week, and you have some flexibility over your hours, the Birmingham commute may be ok. No way would I do it f/t. Yes, trains can be overcrowded at times, but HS2 is coming (probably).

We lived in Birmingham for 8 years and it is a great city, but the 'nice' parts are really expensive, and some aren't as nice as they are cracked up to be (Sutton Coldfield, Moseley). I know it's very predictable from my username, but I would suggest looking at Staffordshire - Stafford, Tamworth and Lichfield all have decent rail connections to London and it's easier to get a bit of peace and quiet and a place in a decent primary and secondary school here. Staffordshire is fully comprehensive - we left Birmingham partly to get away from the grammar system as we disagree with it.

Winchester is nice, but you definitely get more for your money in the Midlands, and the commute from the south coast to London is an ordeal (we have also lived in Sussex).

Birmingham

HS2 is a game-changer

If you want to pay for it the fast Birmingham to London train is only 1 hour 20. I’ve never taken it early in the morning but at peak time coming back there are normally seats free. Also depends how far out the suburb is.

Re suburb check the catchment areas for various grammar schools. They changed their admission criteria a few years ago to make distance from the school more relevant.

Tbh I’d really value being close to family. Will you definitely only have to commute 2 days a week though? If you ever need to change jobs is it easy to get a job in your industry in Birmingham?

The problem in the morning is the wait time at New Street, coming in from the suburb, is quite long, and my office is nearer Waterloo so it turns into something like 2h30 even with the fast train. But if I could sit and work on the train it might be fine, and the evening commute is faster because the connection happens to be quicker. Yes I shouldn't have to do more than 2 days a week in the office. I could potentially move to a job in Birmingham, but it would be quite a change so wouldn't want to do it unless I got really sick of the commute.

If it weren't for family I'd definitely go for Winchester, but I guess the idea of having a support system in place, rather than having to build it with new friends etc, is very tempting, as is the cheaper housing. All feels quite finely balanced really.

Winchester is just under an hour if you get the right train (57 minutes I think). My husband used to go up a few times a week pre covid although we have now moved. He would usually get a seat on the train. I expect house prices are cheaper in Birmingham though.
Good luck with your decision!