POA, Wills, Cancer and uncooperative Great Aunt!

[Petal12]

Hi all, hoping someone can give me some advice/insight on who, how, what to do in this situation.

I have an 80 year old Great Aunt who has recently been diagnosed with some form of cancer - her head is firmly buried in the sand with this news and she has been very unclear and inconsistent with what is going on to my Mum and Aunt (she is their aunt on their mother’s side). She lives an hour away from all of us with her husband who we suspect has some form of dementia. They have money but refuse to spend it on help. Regardless, my uncle specifically will not allow strangers in the house or food to be delivered. My uncle has not been seen by a health professional for possibly 20 years, he self medicates with alcohol and spends most days asleep having stayed up all night smoking and drinking. He is not on anyone’s radar and I feel if my aunt suddenly died, no one would know he exists - obviously we would step in but I’m concerned. Neither of them have wills, despite my mum and aunt both trying to help and encourage with this. There is no Power of Attorney in place either. If either try to bring these subjects up they simply get accused of being grabby (neither are btw) - my Mum went through an awful time after my Dad died with insurance companies and solicitors etc and that was with a will and poa.

My great aunt is about to be very ill with her treatment but will not acknowledge it in anyway. We sincerely want to help them practically (cleaner, gardener, food shop delivered etc) and emotionally but they will not accept - having received the cancer diagnosis my aunt drove off to town to pay some bills in person as she doesn’t like it over the phone/DD. Whilst out she soiled herself but when asked by my mum why did she go if she felt ill, she acts like nothing is wrong and that she has to do these tasks the way she likes doing them, which I totally get as I am the same but she doesn’t seem to realise that that is not always going to be possible soon.
My Mum previously reported them to adult social services due to the suspected dementia to try and force the issue but that all died a death due to COVID. We don’t know where to go from here? How can we help? I’m not afraid to tell them it as it is to be cruel to be kind but my Mum and Aunt are too placid to be that forceful - is it my place? Am I really helping or interfering? Surely I can’t just leave them to get on with it?!?!

Any advice or pointers to organisations I can seek help from would be very gratefully received. Thank you - sorry it’s so long!

DH spoke to SS re FIL.
Social worker called round to assess FIL, he said he was fine and didn’t want help. Case closed. It seems you can’t force old folk to accept help if they don’t want it.

If your aunt has mental capacity then there is nothing you can do, even if it means she isn’t making the right choices. It’s possible she’s scared about what’s to happen. What makes you suspect your uncle has dementia?

It's a shame, but you really can't force them as it doesn't sound like they are expecting or relying on family to do stuff for them. If it gets to a stage that they are asking your mother/aunt to clean, cook, help them with personal care, then is the time to step in and tell them that there are professionals who can do that for them. You or your mum/aunt could order online shopping at this point if needed.

As regards the will, again they cannot be forced into writing one. I assume they don't have children themselves? Everything will be dealt with when the 2nd one dies by intestacy rules as when the first one dies I imagine the other will inherit all. If your aunt dies first then your family might not even inherit as you won't be blood relatives.

It's a shit show but unfortunately unless they are willing, then you cannot force them to change their minds.

It looks like your name change failed Petal.
With regards to your family, they have been so used to doing things their way, and it's often seen in those circumstances they will just do what they want. Getting old is very confusing for them, and they know bit, they are losing the ability to live their lives, without outside intervention and will make them more determined to be obstinate. I really hope your Mum and Auntie are able to sort this out, all the best

Oops sorry Petal my mistake ( I hadn't got my glasses on) the second poster was on about her family, but it looked like a continuance of you OP.
Sorry all 🥴

Sorry but as above posters have said, there’s nothing you can do. I speak from experience regarding my dad and stepmum.
I eventually managed to get my dad to see the doctor, he had Alzheimer’s but refused to acknowledge it.
My stepmum also had it but was diagnosed a year later. I had to beg social services to assess them, I’d been in tears on the phone after my dad dismantled the gas fire and kept switching the electric off at the fuse box. Social worker went and spoke to them, my stepmum said everything was fine but agreed to a care phone and that was it. Despite the fact that the doctor had diagnosed her with Alzheimer’s as well the social worker said it had to confirmed by the memory clinic before they’d take action. Once it had been confirmed and I tried to get them the help that was needed, my stepmum would refuse anyone other than me entry to the house.
You could try phoning the GP surgery and asking them to have a word with your aunt but other than that I’m afraid you just have to wait and see what happens

At the end of the day the only people they are putting at risk are each other (unless one is driving when they aren't safe to do that, in which case dob them in anonymously to the DVLA). Better you all come to terms now with the way it's going to be, which is that they will lurch from crisis to crisis. Keep your powder dry for dealing with those as they happen.

I would contact their GP, and the hospital department treating GA, to give them contact phone numbers and emails of family members and ask these be included in the files of Mrs Name name and Mr Namename of their address . When she's admitted to hospital, you can find out which ward she's on and leave the same info with the charge nurse.

That's all you can do at this stage, if they are both refusing help.

I'm sorry but no referral to adult social care would have "died a death due to covid". If a concern is raised then it is looked into. But the test for intervention against someone's will is incredibly high. You may not approve of their decisions, but they both have the right to live and die as they wish. Even with dementia, that does not mean that someone is incapable of exercising choice. And hard though it may be, there are excellent reasons why the threshold for forcing people to accept interventions is very high. Deciding that someone does not have reasonable capacity to exercise choices for themselves needs careful regulation and monitoring, because it can also be a misuse of power.

You might helpfully point the services of MacMillan to them - they have such a great range of services and may be able to suggest help that your relatives can live with. But they genuinely may not want help. If it is any consolation, one of our local "characters" has done the same thing and has belligerently refused any and all help from services. She was supposed to have died about 4 years ago, and she just keeps going. No idea how, but she does, and I suspect that independent streak may be a big part of it.

@2bazookas

I would contact their GP, and the hospital department treating GA, to give them contact phone numbers and emails of family members and ask these be included in the files of Mrs Name name and Mr Namename of their address . When she's admitted to hospital, you can find out which ward she's on and leave the same info with the charge nurse.

That's all you can do at this stage, if they are both refusing help.

You can phone and give your details but the hospital won’t share any information unless specifically told to by the aunt/uncle. They will not be contacting relatives just because you’ve asked them to. It’s a complete breach of confidentiality.

You could be anyone phoning any giving your details.

This happened to a friend of mine. Ultimately it was a disaster. But everyone suggesting social services is off their head. Social services do very very very little in scenarios like this. The elderly are just left to it until they have repeated falls which then kill them.
I think it's incredibly selfish of these people to put a burden like this on their relatives.

I'd like to say that when she is undergoing cancer treatment hopefully someone will keep an eye on her and assess her home situation but in reality ( I deal with cancer patients in my job ) so many people just get left to cope alone with little support unless unwell enough to need district Nurses etc going in.

Cancer can be slow growing in the elderly . If your aunt has been unclear and inconsistent about the dx it must be difficult to know with certainty what the treatment will be .Hopefully she won't be terribly unwell with it .