Mental health and the fashion to talk about it

[catinboots123]

It's all the rage. Harry, Oprah, Roman Kemp - and every other celebrity. Crying and whining on various doccos.

Yes it's great that it's no longer stigmatised. But at the end of the day it's your personal health!

Who really cares outside your own immediate family? Would it be as lauded if zelebs got a show and wanged on about bowel issues or arthritis or whatever.

All seems a bit self indulgent to me. My private, personal medical issues are exactly that - private and personal.

It isn't really about mental health though. None of the mental health conversations seem to include conditions such as autism

That's because autism isn't a mental illness, it's a neurodevelopment disability.

@BlatantlyNameChanged

It isn't really about mental health though. None of the mental health conversations seem to include conditions such as autism

That's because autism isn't a mental illness, it's a neurodevelopment disability.

It's not really as clear-cut as that. Many conditions which are usually considered to be mental illnesses are now thought to frequently have a significant neurodevelopmental component, such as schizophrenia and borderline/emotionally unstable personality disorder. Autism can be difficult to disentangle from other mental conditions and is frequently misdiagnosed as them, due to having many features which overlap. There's also high comorbidity with other mental conditions.

'It's good to talk'. What would be really good is practical, accessible, real help for serious mental conditions. But they're not very fashionable.

I've relapsed something spectacular with my eating disorder. my own mother doesn't know. there's limited people who have any idea I even have any issues.

There may be a high comorbidity with other mental illnesses but autism itself is not a mental illness or indeed an illness at all. "Illness" implies someone can recover from it given the right treatment , that they just need to "buck up" or "soldier on", it is a lifelong condition that is an intrinsic part of that person. Incorrectly classifying it as a mental illness feeds into various stereotypes around autism and also implies there is something wrong with autistic people, that they're sick/unwell. On a larger scale it contributes towards autistic people being denied their freedom and their choices for no reason other than being autistic (for example, being detained under the mental health act as well as the scandal of DNR orders being applied to the records of autistic people without their knowledge, consent, or even discussion). Someone may be autistic and also have a mental health condition such as anxiety or depression but the autism itself is not a mental illness.

You can argue the same, to some extent at least, for many mental conditions, especially some of the personality disorders… I wouldn't call autism a mental illness, but it's reasonable to include it in discussions about mental conditions as a whole, especially since there are many autistics misdiagnosed with other mental conditions receiving mental health services. Dementia is an often managed within psychiatry too, even when the neurobiological causes are well-known.

When the discussion is about people being self-indulgent about mental illness then, no, autism (and other disabilities) does not have a place in such a discussion.

You're jinking a bit there, Blatantly. Nobody's suggesting what you're implying. The point Mandrake was making was that "awareness" discussions around mental health tend to be dominated by mild, self-limiting, common types of mental distress, ignoring many serious conditions which come under the broader psychiatry umbrella, including autism, which can have a profound impact on a person's life and are generally very poorly understood.

The point I was making is that while it's true autism isn't exactly a mental illness, her point is still relevant, and the field is a lot more complex than "illnesses here, neurodevelopmental disabilities here".

It’s great to talk about it but when you do you either aren’t believed or labelled by your diagnosis (if your lucky enough to get one with a NHS psychiatrist) it’s taken me decades to get help and years of therapy to get where I am now. All these preachers on MN are the worst. Will bemoan posters for not having empathy, well guess what, some people are not capable of empathy due to MHD. It isn’t their fault and sometimes they can not or will not learn new, better behaviours and those with MHI m

M

@BlatantlyNameChanged

There may be a high comorbidity with other mental illnesses but autism itself is not a mental illness or indeed an illness at all. "Illness" implies someone can recover from it given the right treatment , that they just need to "buck up" or "soldier on", it is a lifelong condition that is an intrinsic part of that person. Incorrectly classifying it as a mental illness feeds into various stereotypes around autism and also implies there is something wrong with autistic people, that they're sick/unwell. On a larger scale it contributes towards autistic people being denied their freedom and their choices for no reason other than being autistic (for example, being detained under the mental health act as well as the scandal of DNR orders being applied to the records of autistic people without their knowledge, consent, or even discussion). Someone may be autistic and also have a mental health condition such as anxiety or depression but the autism itself is not a mental illness.

Exactly. I posted the same too. That comment was massively offensive. Autism is a neurological condition NOT a mental illness. Comorbitiies in some autistic people are about those differenr conditions and those conditions might be mental illnesses (often caused by austistic people being forced to live in a world designed for allistics) but autism IS NOT AN ILLNESS. I can't believe that on a thread about mental health there is such ignorance.

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster

You can argue the same, to some extent at least, for many mental conditions, especially some of the personality disorders… I wouldn't call autism a mental illness, but it's reasonable to include it in discussions about mental conditions as a whole, especially since there are many autistics misdiagnosed with other mental conditions receiving mental health services. Dementia is an often managed within psychiatry too, even when the neurobiological causes are well-known.

Then you start making comparisons between autism and personality disorders. FFS. Personality disorders are defined by specific personality traits. They are psychological issues. There is no set of personality traits that autistic people fit, any more than you could describe a personality type for all non-autistic people. 🙄😒 Really, stop posting about stuff you know nothing about please.

And I'm supposed to be a black-and-white thinker?

Illness" implies someone can recover from it given the right treatment , that they just need to "buck up" or "soldier on", it is a lifelong condition that is an intrinsic part of that person.

Are you suggesting people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia should just "buck up" and will be able to get over it with the right treatment?

Illness" implies someone can recover from it given the right treatment

No, it doesn't. There are plenty of physical illnesses people don't recover from or are untreatable and have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Talking about mental health is not the problem, the problem is this:

I have really poor mental health at the moment!

Oh dear! What are you doing about that then?

Nothing, I’m telling you so you can work around it.

Are you suggesting people with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia should just "buck up" and will be able to get over it with the right treatment?

No, my comments were specific to autism.

There are plenty of physical illnesses people don't recover from or are untreatable and have to live with for the rest of their lives.

I wasn't being specific about illnesses, I meant the term illness in a general sense and implications around using the term illness.

Autism is a neurological condition NOT a mental illness. Comorbitiies in some autistic people are about those differenr conditions and those conditions might be mental illnesses (often caused by austistic people being forced to live in a world designed for allistics) but autism IS NOT AN ILLNESS. I can't believe that on a thread about mental health there is such ignorance.

Exactly this.

My son has autism and OCD. His psychiatrist and all involved in his care are very specific: his autism is not a mental condition, it is neurodivergence.

That said, people who are neurodivergent who develop or have psychiatric conditions often require different treatments from those who are neurotypical.

What are we gaining by nitpicking over precise categorisation here?

The point being made originally was that so much awareness-raising effort goes towards minor, common issues, while people who need significant input are left to founder. No, autism isn't an illness, but the poster who first brought it up wasn't wrong to include it when trying to make the point that attention and resources are going to the wrong places.

We could have tedious terminological conversations about sociology and philosophy of medicine and the definitions of sickness vs. disease vs. illness vs. condition, and long chats about neurodiversity and the social model, and advise reach other of ignorance and malice.

Or we could just not.

*accuse each other of

Well, it seems not much is to be gained by talking and awareness, FWIW. I have to pay a private psychiatrist to treat my son, who has a named social worker, and sack a GP who refused to prescribe the medication he needs with her (his consultant's, she is an NHS consultant as well) authority. As for it being semantic, try getting a teenager or child who has an autism diagnosis diagnosed and treated for a co-morbid condition via CAMHS. Haahahaaahaaa!!!

Try being that person, osbert… I've had "we don't treat autistic people" said to my face by a CMHT psychiatrist and by the service manager, when trying to have my bipolar meds reviewed. (And being an undiagnosed autistic in CAMHS wasn't much fun, either.) You're not the only person dealing with this shite.

@FrankensteinIsTheMonster

Try being that person, osbert… I've had "we don't treat autistic people" said to my face by a CMHT psychiatrist and by the service manager, when trying to have my bipolar meds reviewed. (And being an undiagnosed autistic in CAMHS wasn't much fun, either.) You're not the only person dealing with this shite.

Of course I realise that! Am lucky enough to be able to pay for private care. But it should not be so. It should just not be so. Yet it is. My son has ADHD and OCD as well. We were 'lucky' to get an autism diagnosis for him on the NHS - it took 3 years with the school mostly banging down their door and a useless paed I wouldn't take my hamster to saying, 'I don't like to label children.' 'This is about this child and not your personal preferences.'

I think we can all agree hamsters deserve better.