I'm a scared British Jew

[Elladisenchanted]

As I'm writing this, I've had another whats app messagw asking for prayers for a rabbi in London hospitalised, who has just been beaten up. I'm scared.

I'm getting messages from my synagogue and kids schools about walking in groups for safety. Neighborhood group posting pics of cars where I live smashed up. People driving by waving Palestinian flags and screaming anti semitic abuse and entering shops intimidating people. This is Manchester not London, where it's even worse.
I've been sent screenshots of Facebook posts with comments like rape Jewish women. Rape their mothers. Rape their daughters. Not rape the Israelis. Rape the Jews. British Jews.

I'm preparing for the shavuous festival and at 8.50 pm I'll be turning off my phone for just over two days and be cut off from social media and news. But I'm dreading what I'll see when I go back online on Tuesday night. I'm sending my husband to the synagogue with my heart in my mouth. This isn't the first time. It won't be the last.

I'm the last of my British family still here and as much as I love my country I don't know how much longer I want to stay here.

Not sure why I'm posting this. Just feeling despair that this never ends.

Just read the whole thread. I'm so pleased to hear you enjoyed the festival. Cheesecake makes everything better 😋

I was bullied for 6 months or so when younger for being Jewish (I'm not, but my parents kept a kosher house, celebrated Jewish festivals, and we kept the sabbath) so to the outside world we were Jewish.

The bullying hurt to the core. It hurt so much more to be teased for my perceived ethnicity and faith than for having dandruff for instance.
I'm so sorry that you're feeling unsafe. I stand with you

@Mousetown

If mumsnet are forced to delete a posters antisemitic rantings four times in such a short space of time, then surely it’s time to also remove the user from mumsnet, not just the comments.

This

Why are these individuals given so many chances

@Elladisenchanted

I'm glad you had an enjoyable festival 😊

I don't really know what can be done about anti semitism. I know there have been and continue to be interfaith initiatives which I think do a lot of of good.

I agree with interfaith initiatives.
However I do thing most of these thugs aren’t observant of their own faiths.

I do think it’s important to not associate an entire religious group or religion with the actions of a few much like it wouldn’t be fair to do that in the reverse.

This is why British Jews should learn krav maga or some sort of self defence.

This is why British Jews should learn krav maga or some sort of self defence.

Should women learn judo to reduce the risk of an attack against them succeeding? Is it then their fault if an attack against them does succeed, they weren’t trying hard enough?

Come. On.

"This is why British Jews should learn krav maga or some sort of self defence"

I genuinely can't tell whether this is a (very poor) attempt at a joke, or someone is so fucking stupid as to genuinely think this is a reasonable thing to say ?

(That is a good example though of why I personally would like posts to stay up and be flagged, not deleted. I think it's hard for people who aren't Jewish to realise/understand just what Jews face and comments like that demonstrate the extent of it, just as much as the "overtly" anti Semitic comments.

I never thought I'd see this in this country. It breaks my heart. For the first time in my life I couldn't bring myself to vote Labour in the last election because I felt they failed to smash and annihilate anti-semitism in the party. I don't think it was a big issue but it ought to have been publicly excoriated. I'm so sorry this has happened.

Oh, and I'm very pro the Palestinian cause, as are most off my Jewish friends.

This is why British Jews should learn krav maga or some sort of self defence.

No, this is why anti semitism needs to be called out and squashed. Don't blame the victims.

@catspider

This is why British Jews should learn krav maga or some sort of self defence.

Not a lot of use when people are shouting rape threats from cars is it?

@DeepThinkingGirl I do not believe and I certainly hope that I didn't imply that anti-semitism is coming from one specific group or religion. We share a belief about not judging religions/practitioners by the actions of a few; there are visibly orthodox people who do things in the name of Judaism that can be mortifying to read in the news. It's awful knowing that people will make assumptions about me and my religion based on the actions of these people.

Interfaith probably wasn't the right word but I meant it more in the general sense of initiatives with people of different religions/no religion/cultures/ etc.
Judaism isn't a proselytising religion and for various reasons the orthodox tend to live close together so I think a lot of people may not have ever met an orthodox Jew and it's easy for misinformation and half truths to spread. It's also ingrained in many of us to keep a low profile and keep our heads down.

@catspider I actually did do self defence training a few years ago. But I'm a typical very petite Jewish woman and unfortunately in real life it wouldn't make any difference.

Should women learn judo to reduce the risk of an attack against them succeeding? Is it then their fault if an attack against them does succeed, they weren’t trying hard enough?

Yes they should. At the end of the day we can rely on the police and other institutions to some extent at the moment but learning from what happened in Nazi Germany at the end of the day the only people Jews can really rely on is themselves. I wouldn't put my faith in anyone protecting us long-term. Always good to be able to physically defend yourself whether it is against potential rapists or racists.

catspider I'm probably your worst nightmare a bit of a niche example because I'm a Jew with a second dan black belt in karate. So I believe in self-defence and want my DC to take martial arts classes when she is older; I see the value in them.

You know what? If someone comes at me with a gun or in some circs a knife, let alone a bomb or a car or a drone, I don't stand a chance. It's also no use against anti-semitic twats, as this thread is ably demonstrating. It's not ever the fault of the victim that the crime has been committed against them and I think that's a dangerous road to go down.

It's not ever the fault of the victim that the crime has been committed against them and I think that's a dangerous road to go down.

I am of the opinion that Jews should not rely wholly on others to protect them and I think the history of the Jews shows that putting our safety into the hands of others is not always the best policy. Sure, the police should clamp down hard on anti-Semitism and the full force of the law should be brought against racists but I think it's also a good idea to be able to defend yourself...each to their own.

Presumably the whole point of the the self-defence industry existing is so that people can learn to defend themselves if they are attacked. I don't really see the issue in having self defence as a back up strategy.

Jews shouldn't rely on others to protect them
Why not? The rest of us do. Why shouldn't they have support and extra protection if necessary? No person should feel so unsafe. As others have said, martial arts won't stop men in convoys with megaphones threatening sexual violence. It won't stop offensive graffiti on synagogue doors, or cemeteries being desecrated. Great if judo etc makes people feel confident and strong, but it's not the answer.

cat I’d say the view you’re articulating here is the one that Israel is modelling on a national level - we’re strong, vibrant, healthy, wealthy, we have a great army; attack us and we’ll pulverise you.

1. It doesn’t stop the antisemitism. 2) Our enemies use it as an opportunity to upgrade their own arsenals.

I have family (including my parents) in Israel. I believe in its right to defend itself. I’m not making the comparison lightly. I just don’t think “Jews can only rely on themselves” is an approach I can endorse.

This is why I hardly ever discuss the fact that I'm Jewish with people. I'm non observant and married a non Jewish man. As a child I was bullied, told I should have been put in a gas chamber. Told I was at fault for wars in the middle East. Called a Christ killer. So I just keep my head down and don't mention it because I really can't deal with it.

That's a terrible thing, @Purpleavocado, in a diverse society so enriched by different cultures. Why shouldn't you be proud and happy to share your rich heritage? Very sad.

@DeepThinkingGirl

I don't really know what can be done about anti semitism. I know there have been and continue to be interfaith initiatives which I think do a lot of of good.

I agree with interfaith initiatives.
However I do thing most of these thugs aren’t observant of their own faiths.

I do think it’s important to not associate an entire religious group or religion with the actions of a few much like it wouldn’t be fair to do that in the reverse.

Imho the most worrying thing about all of this is the involvement/engagement of young kids. The mob in the Arndale Centre were very young and did not appear to be led by older ringleaders. What if this is much much worse than we think? What if antisemitism js becoming a 'thing'?

I'm not Jewish but DS is and I'm worried sick about him.

Too hard to read the whole thread and can only guess at the deleted parts.

However the (albeit well-intentioned) poster upthread who said all Jews were welcome amongst "UK people" has made me really sad.

I spent my primary school life being bullied for being Jewish and was constantly told I wasn't British if I was Jewish. Imagine my surprise and delight when I realised I too had a UK passport. It was a completr revelation, and still makes me feel emotional when I look at it.

I'm a British Jew and after years of never feeling I belonged here I have finally come to accept and believe that the two things are totally compatible and define my identity. So to see a poster implying that "UK people" are happy to have us here is deeply hurtful (and possibly reveals a degree of unconscious bias). I know it was meant well - and probably just a gauche way of saying something - but language can be very revealing.

I agree too that the deleted posts should be allowed to stand albeit clearly marked out. Part of the difficulty in exposing antisemitism is it can be hard to pin down and prove when it's verbal/implied, so to have concrete evidence can be quite empowering.

Completely agree with the UK thing! My grandfather and father served in WW2 and Korea respectively. My family has been here for over 100 years. An ancestor was an original 'Peeler'.I am British!

OP I’m so sorry to read what you are going though. As a Muslim I have felt incredibly scared when out in public places recently too. All the racist and islamaphobic comments and Snide remarks are really heart wrenching. I’ve lived in this country all my life. Born here. This is my home but you’d be surprised how many times I’ve felt like a pariah when I’ve overheard conversations that have been a little too loud criticising Muslims, ‘them’ or sneering at women walking past who have their head covered. I personally don’t wear a hijab. In fact I’d never wear it as I don’t think I could take the comments.
I’ve witnessed similar comments being made to Orthodox Jews on days out too. I think as a society in this country people have become xenophobic. There’s a them and us attitude. Really disheartening. Hope the situation gets better for all of us soon! I don’t have any plans to live country (where would we go) but have been having conversations with family and friends about where we’d go?!? Please take care x

I am of the opinion that Jews should not rely wholly on others to protect them

We don't. We have Shomrim and the CST. It doesn't stop anti-Semitism.

And when we do stick up for ourselves, like the 43 Group after WW2, we get told we're troublemakers, and should stand down.

I am of the opinion that Jews should not rely wholly on others to protect them

What? This kind of reads like victim blaming, that the Jewish community only have themselves to blame for anti-semitism because they expect the police to find and prosecute the perpetrators or they expect people to condemn anti-semitism with the same verve they would condemn any other kind of bigotry.
The onus shouldn't be only on the Jewish community to end anti-semitism (and I honestly have no idea how learning self defence stops anti-semitic comments without the victim ending up getting arrested) mostly because the people making these comments won't listen to Jewish people when they get called out, or will just resort to calling them "snowflakes".
There's a simple way of getting rid of anti-semitism: Call it out. Every single time you hear someone utter an anti-semitic comment, call them out. Make them realise their views have no place in a civilised society.
I don't hear anyone saying the BAME community "can't rely on others to stop racism." This is no different. You can't put it on the people the bigots have the least respect for to stop bigotry.

The comments about Jewish people being “welcome here” as though they are not as British as anyone else are painful. Well intentioned probably, but miss the mark massively.