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Do you think PND is over diagnosed when parents are in fact just exhausted?

63 replies

cheeseismydownfall · 13/05/2021 11:10

Our DS1 was a terrible sleeper as a baby. A classic case of feeding hourly during the night, not settling, dreadful at napping. He was hopelessly overtired and as a result he was a pretty miserable all the time and parenting him was hard. For me, motherhood started with a 48 hour induced labour, culminating with a middle-of-the-night emergency CS, so I was already exhausted before I started, and I found breastfeeding excruciatingly painful.

By around 10/12 weeks I was on my knees and clearly struggling to cope. I was worried about bonding with DS and basically hating being a mother. My midwife referred me to my GP, who didn't take long to diagnose PND and Sertraline. Somehow the diagnosis of PND made me feel even worse - yet another thing that hadn't gone according to plan. The Sertraline made me feel horrific initially, and didn't seem to help once things had settled down. As weeks turned into months I still felt awful.

When DS was around 10 months old DH and I couldn't take it any more and sleep trained DS - something we had never, ever thought we would do. It was surprisingly painless and within a few days he went from waking every half hour to sleeping through the night (note - this isn't about the pros and cons of sleep training! - I'm just explaining my experience).

As we slowly began to catch up on sleep, it was like a fog lifting. Everything became easier and more hopeful. DS was more settled, and even when he wasn't, I felt more able to cope. I began to enjoy him, and enjoy being a parent, for the first time. Those dreadful dark days slipped into the past, and we went on to have two more children.

I've been thinking back on my experience, and I do question how new parents, and particularly mothers, are supported with what can be quite horrific lack of sleep. I feel that health professionals are very quick to diagnose PND when in fact it isn't necessarily accurate or helpful. I'm not saying that there is anything that a GP could have done, but simply having someone acknowledge that I was utterly exhausted and that of course it was directly affecting (and possibly entirely responsible for) my mental health would have actually really helped and made me feel that I wasn't going mad.

Clearly I am not for a minute saying that PND isn't very, very real for many mothers, and that correctly diagnosing and treating it is incredibly important. But it just seems to have become so easy to 'blame' PND for anything and expect anti depressants to compensate for getting two hours of broken sleep for months on end, and that a mis-diagnosis of PND is actually quite harmful.

OP posts:
TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain · 13/05/2021 15:27

@HotPenguin

I relate to what you are saying but I think sleep deprivation can lead to depression so I'm not sure you can easily separate the two. I think that GPs should talk to parents about how much sleep they are getting and discuss strategies to get more rather than reaching straight for the medication. Unfortunately many women are left to cope with very little support from partner or wider family so there is no practical way for them to get more sleep.
It is true that long-term sleep deprivation can lead to depression.

The absolute vilification by many of sleep training, or any way of helping a child learn to sleep without adult supervision, really doesn't help.

Immaback · 13/05/2021 15:42

“ The absolute vilification by many of sleep training, or any way of helping a child learn to sleep without adult supervision, really doesn't help.”

Absolutely

I came off mumsnet for a while after getting attacked on the topic

MoreAloneTime · 13/05/2021 16:52

The advice on infant sleep is very idealistic and of no help when you get to the point you can barely function because of lack of sleep.

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Superfoodie123 · 13/05/2021 17:28

Totally agree! Also they will throw the anti depressants at you rather than checking important vitals like thyroid, sex hormones, vitamin deficiencys etc to see if those are imbalanced and maybe affecting your mood

peaceanddove · 13/05/2021 18:23

No. I have been utterly exhausted and I have had severe PND. The two don't even compare. No matter how exhausted I felt it never made me want to kill myself.

peaceanddove · 13/05/2021 18:30

Just to elaborate further, I knew there was something very wrong even before I left hospital with DD. I'd had enough sleep because the midwives took her to the night nursery both nights I was in hospital because I was terrified of being left alone with her. Totally irrational, I know.

But sadly, I have a severe intolerance to hormonal fluctuations and especially progesterone. The hormonal crash after giving birth just sent me into a tail spin and I couldn't cope. It's for much the same reason that some women suffer with PMDD, or post partum psychosis. It's a chemical imbalance which can be very dangerous if not treated correctly.

GrumpyHoonMain · 13/05/2021 18:36

If you have a vaginal childbirth, are breastfeeding (and co-sleeping) then pnd is often missed entirely until it becomes serious. For example I was prescribed iron pills, extra thyroxine, vitamin b12, and magnesium until I broke down at the health visitor and even then because I was breastfeeding the GP was reluctant to prescribe antidepressants without speaking to a consultant. By the time he did managed that (Lockdown) I was ok and didn’t need them

Triphazard101 · 13/05/2021 18:39

I had PND with DS - he was very colicky usually between 2 and 5am as a newborn and toddler DD was waking regularly at night as well.
A neighbour who was a nurse advised DH to bottle feed at night when DS woke. (He was 5 months at the time) Within a week of DH feeding him (without extra cuddles or eye contact) DS was sleeping through.
Omg I thought I had died and gone to heaven only having to wake up for DD who was a complete PITA about sleeping

Oblomov21 · 13/05/2021 18:52

I think it's over diagnosed, yes. And missed in others. They just can't seem to get it quite right.

FTEngineerM · 13/05/2021 19:10

Yep, certainly for me people mentioned PND if I said how much we were struggling with certain things and in actual fact we were just tired.

Getting woken every 40-60 minutes for months isn’t fun, it disrupts your entire life and outlook.

A few good nights sleep and I felt better immediately.

bathorshower · 13/05/2021 19:12

I'm sure it's an issue, and very difficult to separate them out. I was really struggling by 6 months - DD was still feeding several times a night. DH took over all the night feeds (I slept in a separate room) and after a week of decent sleep, I felt much better. Had I been suffering with depression, I'm sure I'd still have felt really bad. But not many people have the support to try that.

lavenderandwisteria · 13/05/2021 19:14

The problem is that there is a thread running at the moment showing that while dads could share the load, they just don’t.

Where do sleeping is concerned I don’t know. MN advise it. I find it very stressful and it didn’t help us as baby wanted to be on me. I also do think it gets children into bad habits to be honest (don’t flame me.)

Dingleydel · 13/05/2021 19:24

Yes. I think lots of people who are struggling to adjust to motherhood plus exhaustion are diagnosed with having pnd. I think a certain level of disturbance to your psychological state is normal after having a baby (at least it is among all the women I know) but I can fully appreciate if you don’t have good support systems this would escalate to a need for a formal diagnosis/drugs.

Dingleydel · 13/05/2021 19:29

We are very lucky that we have a great maternal mental health support worker locally. She advises on sleep training. Go figure. So many mums get to absolute breaking point with exhaustion.

user648482729 · 13/05/2021 19:34

I think it can be very hard yourself to know the difference between sleep deprivation and feeling depressed. I had pnd with my second baby but because I’d had the experience of the utterly awful sleep deprivation with my first I knew that it wasn’t just sleep deprivation and was something more.
My DS at 6 months was still waking every hour and I was on my knees with sleep deprivation and encountered a health visitor who was very anti sleep training and it just felt like my mental well-being didn’t matter and there was no consideration of how an ill mother would impact on my baby if wasn’t supposed to do anything about his sleep

Tinchytot · 13/05/2021 19:34

Yes. There is also so much emphasis put on baby-led EVERYTHING now. Good sleep hygiene for babies has taken lesser importance over this message that babies should never cry or you cause brain damage. It’s an immense pressure on new parents and means that many are suffering with terrible sleep deprivation that will certainly have an impact on depression and anxiety levels.

maryjosephandtheweedonkey · 13/05/2021 19:35

I suppose it depends how you define PND. I had a horrible birth experience for numerous reasons and was definitely suffering trauma from that and consequently depression. So I guess it could fall under PND as it was depression in the postnatal period as a result of pregnancy/birth. However it wasn’t PND in the sense of some sort of postnatal hormonal or chemical imbalance. It was a completely rational response to experiencing something horrible and traumatic and having to process that. I was diagnosed with PND and felt a bit like it was a quick go-to diagnosis and a way of saying everything I was feeling was just linked to the fact there was something wrong with me and my way of thinking, that if I was in a ‘normal’ mental state then I wouldn’t be feeling traumatised or struggling to deal with the birth when that just wasn’t the case. I think there definitely needs to be more awareness around birth trauma and support for new mums suffering from it. I also agree that often the circumstances around having a new baby (eg having a restless baby that never sleeps and is always unsettled) can mean conditions that would have a negative effect on most people’s mental health.

InpatientGardener · 13/05/2021 19:41

Probably agree with this, I think also that its a quick label when women have doubts about motherhood, feeling like they regret it, don't feel a bond when actually these things can just take time to grow, especially like you say, when you are utterly shattered all the time. I felt like I might have 'PND' on and off for the first 6 months of DDs life but resisted going to the GP because I've been on Sertraline before and didn't want to go down that path again. Now DD is 8 months and I love being with her, feel a great bond, but I'm also less tired, more confident about what I'm doing and have accepted how different life is now. So I don't know if I had true PND or if I just.. struggled!

3WildOnes · 13/05/2021 19:45

I completely agree about lack of sleep being awful and making you feel depressed.

I am not so sure that encouraging sleep training is the answer. I know lots of woman feel that the pressure to sleep train and being made to feel like a Martyr for not also contributes to feel depressed. I think there is far too much judgement on both sides women should be supported to trust their instincts when it comes to their babies because each baby is different. Some babies can be easily sleep trained at 8 weeks and others are much more sensitive and sleep training might not be best for them or mother. So if a mother wants to let her 8 week old cio then she should be trusted to make that decision as she knows her baby best. Equally if a mother is still getting up multiple times a night with her 18 month old she shouldn’t be made to feel like she is being a martyr for doing this as she also knows her baby best as this might be what her baby needs.
Completely agree paternity leave needs to be longer and less obsession over EBF.

Bathplug · 13/05/2021 20:07

sensitive post

Chronic exhaustion and PND are 2 completely different things. Totally. I live with chronic fatigue syndrome. However, In my experience of PND, it was almost like it was expected and as a consequence it wasn't taken seriously enough. Its almost like 'you have PND, here are the meds, off you go'.
I still remember the health visitor distinctly telling me that what I was feeling and experiencing was completely normal but I would get better soon. Complete with tinkly laugh and head tilt, almost like I was being a silly girl.
Actually, I was feeling like I wanted to kill my baby (and had planned this through) because I thought they had been replaced by an exact replica (aka Capgras syndrome). I spent a lot of time in a mother and baby unit who had to start from the very basics of motherhood. And do this repeatedly until I got it. That baby is now a teenager.

Essentially no matter what a new mother is saying- whether they feel depressed, tired, need feeding support, not quite sure what way is up e.t.c then they deserve to be taken seriously. And supported. Properly. Right from day 1 and for as long as is needed. Starting with postnatal 'care' in hospital which is often anything but.

FTEngineerM · 13/05/2021 20:18

@3WildOnes I think I agree, well that mirrored my experience too.

I’ve only had one baby so far so I am in no way an expert. People were telling me left right and centre to sleep train/leave him to cry in the cot for extending periods of time. I can honestly say throughout his whole life so far he’s slept great UNLESS he’s uncomfortable. We’re getting better at figuring out what is causing his discomfort that’s what has given us all more sleep.

I know that with the next DS that’s due in the autumn we’ll take the same approach, but probably be better at figuring out the discomfort.

MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 13/05/2021 20:25

I think PND is so complex. I had it very badly with my second (covid baby) despite her being a brilliant sleeper and I wasn’t that tired. Looking back I also had it mildly with my first (terrible sleeper) but managed with lots of activities and keeping busy with friends. When these coping mechanisms were gone with covid I deteriorated very quickly.

Both times with me a failure to breastfeed as I had planned was definitely the main trigger. 6 and 4 years down the line I still feel horrible guilt and self loathing when I see a mother breastfeeding successfully. I’m not sure when I’ll ever get over it.

Quincie · 13/05/2021 20:29

Being alone, at home all day with baby, very difficult to get out and about, DH working ridiculous hours, moved to new area, lack of sleep, lack of time to do anything for yourself (shower even) - I guess you do end up depressed but more from circumstances in my case than pnd. Unless they can be one and the same.

lavenderandwisteria · 13/05/2021 21:01

@MattHancocksPrivateNurse

I think PND is so complex. I had it very badly with my second (covid baby) despite her being a brilliant sleeper and I wasn’t that tired. Looking back I also had it mildly with my first (terrible sleeper) but managed with lots of activities and keeping busy with friends. When these coping mechanisms were gone with covid I deteriorated very quickly.

Both times with me a failure to breastfeed as I had planned was definitely the main trigger. 6 and 4 years down the line I still feel horrible guilt and self loathing when I see a mother breastfeeding successfully. I’m not sure when I’ll ever get over it.

same Sad
MoreAloneTime · 14/05/2021 07:58

I really feel for the new mums adjusting to life post baby with few options due to covid. People on here may sneer at baby groups or stay and plays but they made such a difference to my mental health postpartum with my first. I shudder to think how I might have deteriorated if I'd just been stuck at home dwelling on it

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