Not toilet trained for pre school / nursery

[PottyTrainingissues]

Does anyone have any experience
Do children have to be toilet trained if not will they not be allowed to attend (it’s a school nursery of makes any difference?)
My dc is starting in September and it’s v unlikely by then will be fully trained if at all and I’m worried they might say he can’t go

He possibly has asd but no diagnosis so obviously isn’t covered by any discrimination laws I assume if undiagnosed?

No they can't say no. I'm a teacher currently in early years and always have some come in nappies.

Why do you feel the child won't be trained? Is she/he struggling? Mine attend a private nursery who were fine when mine struggled. I've heard school nurseries don't have the same staffing levels, could you enrol in a private nursery now so they get their free hours at 3?
I don't know if you've heard of it but I found the Oh Crap method great.

September is still a long way off

Children do not have to be toilet trained, although some settings try to set this rule, they cannot insist on it.
Many children of this age will not have a formal diagnosis of anything, but may go on to have a diagnosis or may have underlying medical reasons (constipation being one of the most common)
But whatever the reason, any delays or issues with toilet training or toileting difficulties should be treated with respect and support, for the child and the family, and worked on together.

No awareness at all currently so I’m assuming at best we might get him into pull ups and some wees maybe on potty/toilet but he’s currently terrified of both and rejects pull ups
We decided for now to leave it a fee weeks as he’s struggling in other areas we need to prioritise (eating 😱) so it’s not the most pressing issue but I suddenly worried what if he’s not allowed to go because of it

@HazeyJaneII

Children do not have to be toilet trained, although some settings try to set this rule, they cannot insist on it. Many children of this age will not have a formal diagnosis of anything, but may go on to have a diagnosis or may have underlying medical reasons (constipation being one of the most common) But whatever the reason, any delays or issues with toilet training or toileting difficulties should be treated with respect and support, for the child and the family, and worked on together.

Yes we have constipation to deal with too. One day a week we have the poo day

Have you talked to them about any concerns wrt ASD, constipation, toileting?

What is your preschool's policy? I assume you've looked it up? At mine it's fine but I don't know about yours.

Not sure what you think will be achieved through pull ups either though - whether they're in pull ups or nappies they're still in nappies.

@HazeyJaneII

Have you talked to them about any concerns wrt ASD, constipation, toileting?

No contact yet only the place offer and there are no policies online

I would say if only pooing once a week I would get that sorted first before tackling potty training.

Talk to your gp about movicol and senna syrup etc until things are more daily. FYI this can be a long process as once they have got constipated their bowel stretches and allows these giant poos to build up again.

My dd had to take daily laxitives from age 3 to 9ish (also likely asd though still pending evaluation)

^^ what Hazey said. It's not at all uncommon. I had one who had continence issues for other reasons, and it was dealt with very kindly, respectfully and sensitively by their school. By the way, not only can school not refuse to take them; they also can't request that you come in to deal with accidents.

However, do make sure you start talking to the setting from now, to make them aware it's unlikely to happen before September (suspect you'll be doing that anyway if there's an ASD possibility). You'd be surprised how many parents just don't tell the school this stuff until their kid starts!

Sending you support, OP - it can be a vulnerable feeling for you and them, but a good setting should handle it really well xx

@SlidesAndLadders

What is your preschool's policy? I assume you've looked it up? At mine it's fine but I don't know about yours.

Not sure what you think will be achieved through pull ups either though - whether they're in pull ups or nappies they're still in nappies.

From a sensory perspective and also they are easier to get up and down for (hopefully) independently toileting at some stage Plus he has massive accidents as has constipation and once he starts going he doesn’t stop

@milkjetmum

I would say if only pooing once a week I would get that sorted first before tackling potty training.

Talk to your gp about movicol and senna syrup etc until things are more daily. FYI this can be a long process as once they have got constipated their bowel stretches and allows these giant poos to build up again.

My dd had to take daily laxitives from age 3 to 9ish (also likely asd though still pending evaluation)

He has eating issues we can’t get it into him at present well not enough to actually help but we keep trying

I would contact them and ask to speak to the senco, to discuss your concerns over potential asd (has he had any assessments or referrals made?)
and also the toileting.

PS you need to get the constipation properly sorted, BTW - once a week will be creating a lack of nerve sensitivity due to the build-up and bowel stretching, which will then make it harder to feel any need for a poo. I'd recommend getting as much specialist support as poss as soon as poss, as it can take.a while to fix (and they'll feel crappy going that infrequently). Have you seen the website of the ERIC charity? It's a good starting point.

Even if you can't use Movicol (it's hard to get into any of them), stimulants like senna or sodium picosulfate might help to keep things moving. I'd recommend asking for paed gastro input.

It sounds as though the constipation needs to be dealt with before toilet training, and i also think it's really important to not exacerbate any issues by pushing things before your D's is ready. I can't see how old he is, but it may be a good idea to try for a referral to a continence nurse.

With the movicol, if it's the plain one mixed up in the correct amount of water, stirred, left to settle and topped up with something he will drink like juice/squash, would he drink it then?

@HazeyJaneII

I would contact them and ask to speak to the senco, to discuss your concerns over potential asd (has he had any assessments or referrals made?) and also the toileting.

4 referrals (by salt and hv) for assessment all rejected

@HazeyJaneII

It sounds as though the constipation needs to be dealt with before toilet training, and i also think it's really important to not exacerbate any issues by pushing things before your D's is ready. I can't see how old he is, but it may be a good idea to try for a referral to a continence nurse.

With the movicol, if it's the plain one mixed up in the correct amount of water, stirred, left to settle and topped up with something he will drink like juice/squash, would he drink it then?

Me we had to syringe it in but it caused massive distress He won’t drink juice barley has water only has toddler milk (I know that’s not great but I was bf him till 2.5 and I had to stop and he took that so it was the option to mean I could stop bf as it’s all he wanted)

Our local special nursery takes from 2 years old so a lot of them are not toilet trained. At the nursery they will put them in nappies rather than pull ups so that they don’t have to strip off their lower half of clothes. Many of the children start wanting to go to the toilet from seeing the other children going towards the toilet, obviously backed up at home.
Friends of mine youngest child went to school in nappies due to health problems, even without an official diagnosis the school were able to accommodate this.

It's really hard at this age, op. Hopefully if the nursery is a good one then they will work with you to support a referral and getting things in place for your son, to support his needs whether he has a diagnosis or not.
WRT to the constipation is your GP helpful? I know some of them can be a bit blasé about this area - as a pp suggests it may be worth pushing for a gastro paed referral (although be warned, like everything else this can take a lot of pushing and waiting!)
With the eating/drinking it sounds as though he has quite a restricted diet - if he only drinks toddler milk and water - will he eat anything made up with water, like jelly or ice pops (bit of a long shot?!)
There is a Facebook page called Movicol Mummies, which has a lot of suggestions and support for helping children with constipation and also a video by the poo nurses of the best use of movicol.
Also, quieter than they used to be, but the SN boards here can be a good source of info.