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Original poster

Death rate for chicken pox higher in children than covid

20 replies

Carycy · 02/05/2021 09:26

The death rate is 1 in 100,000 I think. It is less than that for covid.

There has been a safe well studied and proven vaccine for chicken pox around for a long time. Most western countries have had a vaccine programme since the 90s. But the UK has never thought it was worth implementing. Quite happy for every child to get it despite it being quite a horrible illness.

So why does our government still not bother and why do they think we should subject our children to what is still a very new vaccine.
Just reading they are looking at vaccinating high school children within the year.

It tells me that they don’t actually care about children’s lives at all ( they showed that pretty clearly in lockdown) but about protecting adults. And of course protecting the economy.

I would add I have been vaccinated against covid. But at this point in time I would not subject my children to to it. In terms of risk versus reward to them it is not worth it.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 02/05/2021 09:35

Parents worried about chicken pox can pay privately for the vaccine if they wish. Chicken pox is well known and doesn’t change much.

Covid has many variations and is very different.

itsgettingwierd · 02/05/2021 09:41

There are differences.

Chicken pox is year round but often seasonal (spring time).

CP has a very obvious set of symptoms and people will isolate with it as required - you can't pass it off as something else as you can with temp etc with COVID.

Chicken is far less prevalent in society as whole and we know most people who have had it have immunity for life. We don't have such data for covid.

Fwiw my 16yo ds has had covid jab. He is group 6 but even though his consultant said in real terms his risk of death was almost zero and negliable for requiring icu we decided as available to go ahead.

Flyonawalk · 02/05/2021 09:42

Fully agree that this government care nothing for children. The fact that they closed schools while garden centres were left open makes this very clear.

It is a breach of medical ethics to subject children to these new vaccines while their risk from covid is so low. I am amazed that it has been seriously suggested.

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Original poster
Carycy · 02/05/2021 09:52

Yes so far the covid has shown very few significant symptoms in children. Chicken pox on the other had makes children very ill regularly.

You can get your children privately ( I did) but their is no publicity about this and most parents I speak to seem unaware. You cannot have the chicken pox vaccine till they are one and even then you have to wait as they have their mmr at the same time so your child is vulnerable to an unvaccinated population for over a year. As a parent of a child with sever eczema ( chicken pox is worse in children with eczema) this was very stressful.

Yes their are more I now in covid but their are more unknowns in the vaccine too.

OP posts:
Original poster
Carycy · 02/05/2021 09:54

*there ( I know before I get any pedants on me) m. Typing while dealing with a two year old!

OP posts:
blueandcream · 02/05/2021 09:54

The chicken pox vaccine is one I want to ask about and I don’t want to be shouted down by people.

Isn’t it the case that it is better to get chicken pox ‘naturally’ as this gives lifelong immunity?

Vintagevixen · 02/05/2021 09:54

I think I'm correct in saying that not vaccinating children against chicken pox is something to do with protecting the elderly against shingles. Older people getting small doses of varicella virus from contact with grandchildren etc boosts their immunity to shingles (same virus)

That's why the UK doesn't put a chicken pox vaccine in normal childhood vaccine programmes. It's a public health decision to protect the elderly.

I've had the COVID vax but will not be giving it to 13 year old DD. I spent 24 hours feeling like death afterwards but took it as the risk/benefit analysis is clear for me in my 50's. For her - the risks are minuscule from Covid so the risk/benefit analysis is the other way.

Totallydefeated · 02/05/2021 10:00

The reasoning behind not giving the chickenpox vaccine is partly financial, and partly not wanting to add another vaccine into the schedule and put off more parents who already worry about kids getting too many. If they bundle it with MMR, it could lead to fewer kids receiving the MMR vacc.

The issue with shingles in the elderly, while a consideration, is actually really just window dressing for PR purposes.

I agree that the medical ethics of giving a vacc to children for the benefit of others rather than themselves is dubious. It means they run the risks of the vacc for probably not benefit to themselves. You can say similar for the flu vaccine, of course, given how few children get seriously ill or die of it.

Estasala · 02/05/2021 10:02

I think it would be good for BOTH the chickenpox and the Covid vaccine to be offered on the NHS.

I actually think if Covid had affected children badly that the government would have acted more quickly, with a stronger lockdown, travel restrictions, school closures etc. Hopefully lessons will be learned - that a short sharp swift lockdown is the best plan for dealing with something like thus.

Original poster
Carycy · 02/05/2021 10:04

Apparently that has been shown to be wrong vintage now and even if it was adults would just have to have a booster instead. It is also highly unethical to make children ill in order to protect adults! They are not mini vaccines. They are humans.

I believe the real reason for not bothering with a vaccine programme is money orientated and that unproven theory has been banded about to help justify it.

But exactly. I was dearly ill with the first Pfizer vaccine for 24 hrs. Worse than any flu vaccine I have had. No way would I subjunctive my kids to that when they are at no real risk to covid.

OP posts:
blueandcream · 02/05/2021 10:05

No I agree totally I wouldn’t be giving consent for DC to have the flu vaccine.

Neolara · 02/05/2021 10:06

A previously extremely fit and healthy 18 yo in my family is still experiencing debilitating effects of long covid 6 months after becoming ill. It's not all about dying / ICU.

Vintagevixen · 02/05/2021 10:10

Ok fair enough OP you're likely right! And yes it's probably more to do with cost.

I would refuse the Flu vaccine for DD too despite flu affecting children worse than Covid, anyone remember the Swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy in children? The risk/benefit equation just doesn't add up to it for her.

Original poster
Carycy · 02/05/2021 10:11

That is true neolara and when there are more numbers on this sort of thing I would consider it once I can see what the risk versus benefit to them is at different ages.

But to vaccinate 12 year olds as early at this autumn to me is too fast.

OP posts:
QuarantineQueen · 02/05/2021 10:19

I'll be giving DD the vaccine as soon as possible. I'm CEV (shielded) and I'm fairly sure that 24 hours of side effects will be less traumatic for her long term than bringing it home to me and losing her mother, or ending up without me whilst I'm seriously ill in hospital for months.

Seoirnbru · 02/05/2021 10:22

I’ll happily vaccinate my 13y old son when I can. Our schools only been back a couple of weeks and half the school is off isolating again. It’s the only way I can see his education recovering in time for his exam years.

roguetomato · 02/05/2021 10:22

I want my 13 years old vaccinated as soon as possible. Death case maybe rare, but long covid isn't so rare, and also the fact that longer the virus circulates among people, more possibility of mutation. I don't want my dc to take chances.

SunbathingDragon · 02/05/2021 10:26

Many children are vaccinated against chickenpox. Just like many are vaccinated against Men B despite being too old for it to have been part of their vaccination schedule. Equally, there are a number of parents who decide against vaccinating their child altogether.

Yes, ultimately it’s a financial decision by the government but a lot of parents just accept the cost of private vaccinations for their child regardless.

As for covid, long covid is much more of a concern in children than death is. Chickenpox isn’t a worldwide problem. Covid is the biggest global concern right now. Vaccinating children in turn helps everyone; it’s not just about trying to prevent a young child being likely to get a few spots and feel mildly off colour for upwards of a week and then being immune for life. People are being reinfected by covid and teenagers transmit, whilst also being likely to go abroad on holiday.

As a paramedic with a couple of decades experience, I can count on one hand the number of really ill children with chickenpox I’ve seen. I don’t have enough fingers in my entire family to count the same with children with covid - and that’s just in one year. Covid repercussions in children are all about long covid and transmission. It’s just not comparable to chickenpox.

Totallydefeated · 02/05/2021 10:27

Agree that long Covid is an issue, I would like to see more data on it first, before making a call though. Post viral fatigue CFS/ME are a risk following lots of viruses, of course.

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