How do we fix structural /institutional racism?

[StealthPolarBear]

Representation seems good but can only go so far.

Blind recruitment helps.

I have found that putting people who have not experienced racism or are likely to is stupid. They simply don’t know what they are talking about and their effects to be inclusive are often wrong and misguided.

Our organisation has our website plastered with photos of people from all backgrounds to show diversity and make us feel inclusive. But we hardly have any BAME people on here and if you complain about racism the answer is always “but he is a lovely guy, are you sure you are not being oversensitive about it?”, or.. “what have you done???are you sure you didn’t cause this?”

Reporting racism is like reporting rape. Instead of getting the help you need people start looking what you did to deserve it.

Putting in charge people who have not experienced racism, I meant to say.

I was reading a thread the other day about cheap clothes & how the company uses slaves to make them & some posters didn't care.
What confuses me is that If we "other" different races from other countries & see them as less then ourselves, or deserving of less how do dismantle structural racism? Yes we can do things to challenge society structure in the UK but will that actually be enough?

Having a Prime Minister who has not historically used racist language would be one step.

@KarmaNoMore

I have found that putting people who have not experienced racism or are likely to is stupid. They simply don’t know what they are talking about and their effects to be inclusive are often wrong and misguided.

Our organisation has our website plastered with photos of people from all backgrounds to show diversity and make us feel inclusive. But we hardly have any BAME people on here and if you complain about racism the answer is always “but he is a lovely guy, are you sure you are not being oversensitive about it?”, or.. “what have you done???are you sure you didn’t cause this?”

Reporting racism is like reporting rape. Instead of getting the help you need people start looking what you did to deserve it.

Scary. Thank you.

speaking as a white person who has never experienced racism I wasn't sure whether to post this or not, but it is how I feel so am open to being slayed here.

I see some minority groups as victims, through no fault of their own.
At the same time, I miss them making efforts on their side to address the issues in their community.
What I would like to see is that they say ' a and b are serious issues in our community. We are doing a,b and C in an attempt to address this but we need you to do d,e,and F as well.'

It's just that they seem to be constantly in the victim mode and I rarely see any attempt to take partial ownership . I would see things differently if both sides came together with both taking ownership and responsibility for looking for a solution.

It may be that this is already happening but it just isn't reported much so it doesn't seem that it's happening.

Of course the above doesn't apply in all situations but it does in some.

Keep educating people. Also at home - making sure children know all people are equal (as most of the religions also say). never tolerate any racism you experience ever. I have even called out taxi drivers on it.

It will also depend on the area eg Northumberland where I am from is 98% white so their issues tend to be different from where I live in London where more people than not are BAME.

@dogmandu

speaking as a white person who has never experienced racism I wasn't sure whether to post this or not, but it is how I feel so am open to being slayed here.

I see some minority groups as victims, through no fault of their own.
At the same time, I miss them making efforts on their side to address the issues in their community.
What I would like to see is that they say ' a and b are serious issues in our community. We are doing a,b and C in an attempt to address this but we need you to do d,e,and F as well.'

It's just that they seem to be constantly in the victim mode and I rarely see any attempt to take partial ownership . I would see things differently if both sides came together with both taking ownership and responsibility for looking for a solution.

It may be that this is already happening but it just isn't reported much so it doesn't seem that it's happening.

Of course the above doesn't apply in all situations but it does in some.

You have no idea what the communities are doing about the issues that are going on. It is so easy to sit on the outside and say what you are saying. how dare you say that these people are constantly in victim mode. Would you say that to women who are suffering from misogyny? People do not ask to be victims of racism. I get sick and tired of people like you who have no idea, but have nothing useful to say.

@KarmaNoMore

I have found that putting people who have not experienced racism or are likely to is stupid. They simply don’t know what they are talking about and their effects to be inclusive are often wrong and misguided.

Our organisation has our website plastered with photos of people from all backgrounds to show diversity and make us feel inclusive. But we hardly have any BAME people on here and if you complain about racism the answer is always “but he is a lovely guy, are you sure you are not being oversensitive about it?”, or.. “what have you done???are you sure you didn’t cause this?”

Reporting racism is like reporting rape. Instead of getting the help you need people start looking what you did to deserve it.

I agree. Well said.

you say how dare you say that these people are constantly in victim mode.

I said ^ It's just that they SEEM to be constantly in the victim mode

It may be that this is already happening but it just isn't reported much so it doesn't seem that it's happening.^

Please read what I said, not what you want me to have said.

I alsoi said this Of course the above doesn't apply in all situations but it does in some.

Structural racism is not one thing. Structural racism in the justice system is different from structural racism in the education system which is differnet again from structural racism in the charitable sector (to pick three random examples).

Asking "how do we fix structural racism" is like asking "how do we fix poor health". There are lots of different ways structures can be racist just as there are lots of different ways people can have problems with their health. Each indvidual case requires its own solutions.

@dogmandu

you say how dare you say that these people are constantly in victim mode.

I said ^ It's just that they SEEM to be constantly in the victim mode

It may be that this is already happening but it just isn't reported much so it doesn't seem that it's happening.^

Please read what I said, not what you want me to have said.

I alsoi said this Of course the above doesn't apply in all situations but it does in some.

It isn’t their job to prove anything or give you instructions on how to act. It’s your job to not be an ignorant twat but sadly you are failing.

It isn’t their job to prove anything or give you instructions on how to act. It’s your job to not be an ignorant twat but sadly you are failing.

well this is the kind of answer I was sadly expecting. One side has to do all the actions and the other just sits and waits without contributing anything. Then surprise surprise, nothing ever changes, because some problems require actions from both sides.

@NotDavidTennant

Structural racism is not one thing. Structural racism in the justice system is different from structural racism in the education system which is differnet again from structural racism in the charitable sector (to pick three random examples).

Asking "how do we fix structural racism" is like asking "how do we fix poor health". There are lots of different ways structures can be racist just as there are lots of different ways people can have problems with their health. Each indvidual case requires its own solutions.

Really good points thanks. I'll admit to not knowing much at all but I do know about health and the parallels (and overlaps) are interesting.

Dog don't you see the divides in the way you talk? Who are 'we' and what sorts of things do we do?

Dog don't you see the divides in the way you talk? Who are 'we' and what sorts of things do we do?

I see 'we' as everybody. All of us on the same level playing field. To get to this we all need to have respect for each other.
On the racial front there are issues around people just being a different colour but other issues centering on behaviour. (people of any colour)
On the perceived behavioural issues, it would make sense to have an open and honest discussion with both sides prepared to see if they need to make any adjustments to their behaviour.

As others have pointed out, stating that some communities are in 'constant victim mode' regarding racism is like saying women are in 'constant victim mode' about misogyny. It isn't the job of marginalised communities to tell the privileged how to fix the problems that they labour under - although many, many people have tried. I think the key to this (and all prejudice) is education. Lots of white people, even those that recognise the problem and want it to change (including myself), don't understand how structural racism manifests, and don't understand the overwhelming impact it has on people and communities. Just like lots of well-meaning men don't actually understand what it's like to live as a women in a patriarchal society. The more people understand what it's like to walk in the other person's shoes, the more likely they are to take actions to improve the situation, and to call racist people and racist systems out for what they are. It won't be quick, but systemic change never is.

@newnortherner111

Having a Prime Minister who has not historically used racist language would be one step.

Also this. That would really help.

I see some minority groups as victims, through no fault of their own.
At the same time, I miss them making efforts on their side to address the issues in their community.
What I would like to see is that they say ' a and b are serious issues in our community. We are doing a,b and C in an attempt to address this but we need you to do d,e,and F as well.'

What issues in ‘their’ community?

What a, b and c can I do to stop people calling me a Paki, darkie etc?

What a, b and c can I do to stop the police racially profiling me?

And why is Simon 'they' and others are 'we'?

I find the issue too big to comprehend as there are a lot of structures out there and a lot of races that experience racism differently. But i suppose the crux is not assuming that the default person is a white when creating any structure.

@dogmandu

Dog don't you see the divides in the way you talk? Who are 'we' and what sorts of things do we do?

I see 'we' as everybody. All of us on the same level playing field. To get to this we all need to have respect for each other.
On the racial front there are issues around people just being a different colour but other issues centering on behaviour. (people of any colour)
On the perceived behavioural issues, it would make sense to have an open and honest discussion with both sides prepared to see if they need to make any adjustments to their behaviour.

You just don’t get it do you dogmandu?