Can´t survive on salary without benefits. Doesn´t seem right.

[Fashionesta]

Just wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as feeling a bit miserable. Recently started new job, 31K a year, felt happy with that, potential to grow. Having done all my calculations and bills, if it were not for getting some money towards housing, I would be 300 pounds a month short :(

After pension I get around 1800 per month. Rent is 950 and I have one of the cheaper properties in my area so no ability to find anything cheaper - its me and DD in a 2 bed. No luxuries at all. Basic mobile phone on giff gaff 8 per month, no SKY etc, old car although paying off car loan of 150 month which bumps outgoings up. By the time I have paid all my bills, council tax, loan, after school club for DD and swimming lessons for her which I feel is essential, if it weren´t for the fact that I get some help towards rent, I would be -300 per month.

I generally feel like I earn a decent wage and panicking a bit about the situation. Not asking for a solution really as I think I am quite frugal, also sensible so pay for life insurance, car insurance, pet insurance and house insurance. Pay TV licence and so on. Shop at Tesco.

Anyone else don´t feel like they are getting by on what I actually consider a decent wage (although I realise in MN terms I am probably not earning much at all).'

Argh I just hate feeling poor all the time and I shouldn´t have to rely on benefits when on 31K surely!

@DoveOfPiss

I'm a lone parent with 4 children, ex pays nothing as he has MH issues so is unemployed and hardly sees the kids, I'm working fulltime at the bottom of band 5 in the NHS so take home 1500/month. My rent is 875 a month for a 3 bed (I'm 'entitled' to a 4 bed) (Midlands) and my landlord has just informed me he wants to put it up to 900 from June 1st. Moving is not an option as I have one doing GCSE's next year and one the year after, schools will not accept transfers from year 10 onwards. Also, my salary multiples don't add up to be able to pay the rent I am paying, let alone any more, so I am effectively unable to move. I get no housing benefit as our council earnings cap is £16k for any help, I get the council tax 25% discount but that's it. I shop in Aldi, we have 1 week in a caravan every other year for a holiday, basic tv package, there is nothing left for birthdays, haircuts, new clothes. It all goes on rent, utilities and food. My wages will not increase for 2 years either.

I agree it is ridiculous and frustrating that a single wage cannot meet the basic needs of a family. I'm paying more than half of my take home wages in rent. It also incenses me that their father pays nothing and doesn't have to.

Please ask CAB to do you a benefit check. Unless you have savings over 16k you are highly likely to be better off on universal credit with that amount of rent to pay. Ask them to do a better off calculation.

@DoveOfPiss

I'm a lone parent with 4 children, ex pays nothing as he has MH issues so is unemployed and hardly sees the kids, I'm working fulltime at the bottom of band 5 in the NHS so take home 1500/month. My rent is 875 a month for a 3 bed (I'm 'entitled' to a 4 bed) (Midlands) and my landlord has just informed me he wants to put it up to 900 from June 1st. Moving is not an option as I have one doing GCSE's next year and one the year after, schools will not accept transfers from year 10 onwards. Also, my salary multiples don't add up to be able to pay the rent I am paying, let alone any more, so I am effectively unable to move. I get no housing benefit as our council earnings cap is £16k for any help, I get the council tax 25% discount but that's it. I shop in Aldi, we have 1 week in a caravan every other year for a holiday, basic tv package, there is nothing left for birthdays, haircuts, new clothes. It all goes on rent, utilities and food. My wages will not increase for 2 years either.

I agree it is ridiculous and frustrating that a single wage cannot meet the basic needs of a family. I'm paying more than half of my take home wages in rent. It also incenses me that their father pays nothing and doesn't have to.

You must be getting a significant amount of tax credits or Universal credit already with four kids?

Focus on your new job - is their scope for progression / advancement and more money? Keep working away at building your career.

Hopefully soon you can get rid of the loan payment.

Congrats OP on your new job. I used to earn the same as you and I really struggled to make ends meet living in a 1 bed flat in the SE. I worked in a professional, skilled job in Financial Services (not everyone is a loaded banker) and worked really bloody hard (12+hour days). I ended up having to take a Sunday job - please don't think I believe that this is a good course of action.

Working full time on what should be a decent wage should afford a decent level of living.

I'm going to sound really ancient now but when I was growing up most families had a stay at home parent, none of my friends had parents on a mega salary but a decent level of living was maintained e.g. mortgage not rent, dance lessons for the kids, holiday in a caravan etc. As a society we seem to have gotten out of sync that these sorts of things are only considered for the affluent and not normal working people.

I'm slightly as to how you get benefits on 31k. When I lost my job during the pandemic UC only covered my rent and bills, absolutely no money to live on. Even if I were to be employed on 18k I'd get absolutely nothing from UC. I don't have kids though, so not sure if that's the reason.

@Fashionesta my husband works in international child support recovery and normally your ex DP living overseas should not stop you from receiving maintenance!! Please send me a PM and I will try to offer you some guidance. It’s outrageous that you haven’t received more guidance regarding this x

@Flowersinthewindowstill

I'm slightly as to how you get benefits on 31k. When I lost my job during the pandemic UC only covered my rent and bills, absolutely no money to live on. Even if I were to be employed on 18k I'd get absolutely nothing from UC. I don't have kids though, so not sure if that's the reason.

Do you have kids ? because on Uc if you have kids then a significant proportion of wages is completely disregarded before earnings reduce Uc. UC is a lot more generous for people with kids than single people ! It is also currently £80 higher per month than normal due to the covid uplift.

@Flowersinthewindowstill

I'm slightly as to how you get benefits on 31k. When I lost my job during the pandemic UC only covered my rent and bills, absolutely no money to live on. Even if I were to be employed on 18k I'd get absolutely nothing from UC. I don't have kids though, so not sure if that's the reason.

Also if you are under 35, you would only be entitled to a shared accommodation rate for rent, this often falls significantly short of what your rent actually is, causing severe hardship for single people.

To answer the question.on insurance. I pay contents insurance, not building. I was trying to make a point that all these small bills add up eg my car insurance is low as many years no claims but obviously all adds up.

People seem to misunderstand. It's not about me cutting back. I get the UC top up where I live because of high rents. The government don't care if I spend it on a pet or food etc. The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up. I'm not the only one in this situation.

Moving would do nothing as would just lose the top up and have around the same amount. Moving would also mean I'd have to change job, move far away from family, uproot DD from school etc. Why should I have to do this on a decent salary. Does not make sense.

And as pp mentioned. Ironically I pay around the same in tax as my top up so essentially paying my own way!

* The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up. I'm not the only one in this situation.*

There’s no “should” about it.

Some areas are incredibly lovely places to live; some are mediocre; some are shite.
Some aren’t great but fantastic travel links; some are beautiful but not close to a business orientated town / city. I could go on. And on.

And rents reflect that fact. Just the same for holidays; cars; even hairdressers. Their costs reflect location and / or quality.

I used to pay London rents. Eye watering. Didn’t begrudge it as I adored my flat and living in London.

@babyroobs qualified 3 years and the opposite seems to be working for him! New nurses come into the ward on band 6 salary yet band 6 positions not offered to him, he's got himself a job nearer home then his manager gave him an unsatisfactory reference despite him never being off, and popular with staff and patients so he's stuck. He also does majority of night shifts as his female colleagues claim they can't because of childcare issues! I think his manager see him as a diversity box ticked rather than a valuable member of staff tbh

OP - I completely get where you are coming from. Some people on here would benefit from examining how benefits work and looking at some sociology/ social policy.
We have a housing crisis that is growing worse by the day. So many families are now living in poverty after housing costs now - which impacts outcomes in terms of health, education and employment - it all intersects and is damaging on an individual and societal level. 80% of the housing budget is now spent on paying private landlords mortgages off - it used to be the case that 80% was spent on affordable housing. As tax payers we have in some cases paid for social housing three times over - once when built, again when they were sold off through a subsidised scheme and now many old council properties are in the hands of privates landlords who charge extortionate rents and housing benefit is contributing to these rents.
There idea that people here think that merely existing is acceptable actually makes me feel nauseous - do you know how damaging to wellbeing that is? Do you know it actually perpetuates disadvantage? Children who attend after school activities will have more social capital - the research shows that. There is a reason why the advantaged go to university, get better jobs etc etc. No, they are not naturally brighter. Before the argument of no magic tree is raised- we spend less on welfare now than we did in the 1980's. Affordable and decent housing is the biggest factor in reducing poverty and improving outcomes. It should be regarded as a fundamental human right as it is in countries such as Austria. OP - you should be able to survive on what you have, but you can't- and it is very wrong.

Firstly I just want to say don’t feel bad for taking or needing the top up. You are working hard, paying taxes and I for one am glad you are getting some help to be able afford things like swimming lessons for your child. 31k is an okay salary depending on circumstances, but totally sympathise with your OP and gripes around why it isn’t enough. I think your rent is cheap. I pay £1450 for a one bed in a not posh area of London which is in the catchment area of a good secondary. We sleep in the sitting room. I just hope that your hard work and ambition pays off and you get a good rise in the next few years so you can enjoy your life more and have good holidays etc. I have only been in that position in the last few years and I am 47. But we still live in a large one bed so that we can afford treats and a nicer lifestyle.

And as pp mentioned. Ironically I pay around the same in tax as my top up so essentially paying my own way

Not really as not paying any extra tax than taking out means others are funding your families education, healthcare etc.

The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up

Some areas can command higher prices due to the area, amenities etc. If people choose to live in an area too expensive for their budget then I don’t think the government should step in.

Fwiw @Fashionesta I agree that it is an appalling situation that someone earning even the U.K. average of £38k, struggles with high rents etc. & there’s little ‘slush’ for life enjoyment. At £31k in the SE, I think you’re at a distinct disadvantage, especially as a SP. Being reliant upon a UC top up is reality for many, many people, and I bet the vast majority would simply prefer to earn a decent wage & not have the (frankly ludicrous) judgement of people who have no clue what it means to only scrape by.

Thank you op for explaining to us ....agree its ridiculous but all credit to you for hanging on in there. Eventually as you say, your salary will go up and the benefits will drop off so momentarily you will be no better off which is really tough.
I'm sure you've checked all your entitlements but do look at the insurances, there are very competitive quotes around atm.. Also people now having to WFH have allowances for extra heating / fuel cost set against tax . Good luck and ignore the detractors on here.

OP, I feel for you. It’s a common struggle in the London and SE. Where I live (40 miles from London), there is no outer London or fringe weighting for salaries. My single parent brother who earns £45k as a teacher in the Midlands and lives a pretty comfortable life would be struggling here due to the housing costs.

Interesting perspective regarding some areas having more amenities, therefore command a higher rent / property prices and not agreeing with benefits top up - it is a choice to live there.

1. Whereever you live you require people to work in low paid work. You know - those people who clean the streets, work in shops and work for the NHS etc. Should they move out of the area and travel in? How far is a reasonable distance to travel? Maybe we should have a decent living wages and affordable housing for them?

As gentrification spreads (as more people are displaced) where will all the disadvantaged move to? Cheaper areas where inevitably there is less work and poor infrastructure? Does that not create class enclaves and areas of disadvantage? Is not eroding community networks and social cohesion? The list goes on...

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

And as pp mentioned. Ironically I pay around the same in tax as my top up so essentially paying my own way

Not really as not paying any extra tax than taking out means others are funding your families education, healthcare etc.

The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up

Some areas can command higher prices due to the area, amenities etc. If people choose to live in an area too expensive for their budget then I don’t think the government should step in.

You talk thru a hole in your ar...se!!! Given the salaries of some public service workers, where exactly do you think the people ....who staff your hospitals, care for your elderly, drive your buses, clean your streets and look after all the other local amenities you speak of in "your" area, should live??? 2 hours away from your salubrious home in a cheaper postcode? Get a grip!!

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

And as pp mentioned. Ironically I pay around the same in tax as my top up so essentially paying my own way

Not really as not paying any extra tax than taking out means others are funding your families education, healthcare etc.

The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up

Some areas can command higher prices due to the area, amenities etc. If people choose to live in an area too expensive for their budget then I don’t think the government should step in.

You say this on all these threads but you never address the fact that the more expensive areas still need the low paid workers - the care assistants, the cleaners, the bar and restaurant staff, the retail staff. Where are they supposed to live?

Totally get your point OP - you earn a decent salary and shouldn’t need a top up.
The government should have controlled rents and helped people to actually buy their homes ages ago. Pretty much the only people who can buy in the south now are professional couples or those which rich parents.

And to all the miserable fuckers saying she shouldn’t be able to take her child swimming (an actual life skill) and to after school clubs - why come onto Mumsnet when you clearly hate kids so much? I mean god forbid the child of someone on benefits be allowed to have some fun - they should probably be sent to the workhouse after school right?

I completely agree with you OP. You should be able to live a nice life, working full time on a decent salary with just you and your DD.
I am not knowledgable in this area, having read some very helpful posts in this conversation it seems to be a lot to do with wages not increasing enough and private landlords charging too much. I know a couple of private landlords and am sure they are charging a little more than they pay in mortgage for the property I so I must confess I don’t understand that, but perhaps the majority are charging way more in rent than they pay in mortgage?
Wages - if a lot of companies are struggling how can they afford to pay more in wages? Genuine question to educate me!
I always end up going in circles. The government should pay more to help, but the government just spends our money so that means we’d have to pay more in tax so we’d have less?!

With you all the way @cuparfull
As for @IceCreamAndCandyfloss, what a staggering lack of empathy and understanding you show. No doubt you’ll be the first to complain when your house is burgled, your handbag robbed etc. By one of these dreadful poor people who simply cannot make ends meet. It won’t occur to you that it’s attitudes like yours that create such dangerous divisions of wealth and poverty such that theft (and other crime) becomes a life saving option

@SuziQuatrosFatNan

Absolutely

Are we saying that now people on average wage (not low) need benefits to survive and also have to scrimp on every penny.

This is a massive canary in coal mine, surely?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

And as pp mentioned. Ironically I pay around the same in tax as my top up so essentially paying my own way

Not really as not paying any extra tax than taking out means others are funding your families education, healthcare etc.

The problem is that rents should not be more than half your salary in some areas thus making the gov step in and top up

Some areas can command higher prices due to the area, amenities etc. If people choose to live in an area too expensive for their budget then I don’t think the government should step in.

Ok. So i move to one of these cheaper areas with my DC. We are now a couple of hundred, maybe more, miles away from all our friends and family. Like PPs have said these cheap areas often have no amenities/infrastructure. So there's less public transport. No big supermarkets nearby. I don't drive. No 'local' (as in walkable to) jobs. So now I can't get a job (let's assume my MH issues have some how disappeared so I can work) because I can't actually get to one. My DC have to commute on infrequent public transport to their schools. I have no one to help in an emergency. No family to call on when I need some help. So I'm isolated in an area I don't know. Unable to get a job. My MH would very quickly dive again and I wouldn't be able to call my Mum when I'm getting suicidal thoughts and ask her to pop over for a coffee. But hey. "The taxpayer" won't be paying my landlords mortgage anymore so I'll just be collateral damage. (Oh and BTW I know, because we move in the same social circle and I've heard him boasting about it, that my rent is 4x my landlords mortgage and he refuses to do anything but the bare minimum in the house. We've got plaster falling off the walls from damp, a leaky bath and such low water pressure that we frequently have no cold water in the bathroom) My rent is also more than 50% of my income. But yeah. I'm the problem.