Can´t survive on salary without benefits. Doesn´t seem right.

[Fashionesta]

Just wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as feeling a bit miserable. Recently started new job, 31K a year, felt happy with that, potential to grow. Having done all my calculations and bills, if it were not for getting some money towards housing, I would be 300 pounds a month short :(

After pension I get around 1800 per month. Rent is 950 and I have one of the cheaper properties in my area so no ability to find anything cheaper - its me and DD in a 2 bed. No luxuries at all. Basic mobile phone on giff gaff 8 per month, no SKY etc, old car although paying off car loan of 150 month which bumps outgoings up. By the time I have paid all my bills, council tax, loan, after school club for DD and swimming lessons for her which I feel is essential, if it weren´t for the fact that I get some help towards rent, I would be -300 per month.

I generally feel like I earn a decent wage and panicking a bit about the situation. Not asking for a solution really as I think I am quite frugal, also sensible so pay for life insurance, car insurance, pet insurance and house insurance. Pay TV licence and so on. Shop at Tesco.

Anyone else don´t feel like they are getting by on what I actually consider a decent wage (although I realise in MN terms I am probably not earning much at all).'

Argh I just hate feeling poor all the time and I shouldn´t have to rely on benefits when on 31K surely!

@Susannahmoody

But how can the dad not pay anything? HOW? He doesn't get to pick? I don't understand

Of course he gets to pick. He has picked 'No, I will not pay maintenance.' And he's hardly a unique case so I don't understand how people are so baffled by it.

OP I live in the East Midlands and my rent is £895 per month and I’m not even in a nice area.

My total income is 32K, including CMS (3k per year for 2DC and he only has them EOW), benefits, student loan and salary.

It’s shit.

Most of my childcare is paid but the cost is still around £500 per month to me.

Can’t afford a car.

Have twice a year “holidays” as my Dad lives on the coast and we visit him (although not for the last year).

I’m hoping that once I’m qualified it’ll get better (Scientist, I’ve got 2 years left and I’ll have a BSc and an MSc, it’s a combined degree).

CMS are totally toothless.

The “father” of my 3rd DC pays NOTHING.

I’ll tell you how.

• He job hops. HMRC take 12 weeks to update CMS on where he is working. It then takes CMS a further 12 weeks to set up a Deduction of Earnings. And of course they send him a letter so he knows when to jump ship.

• There are multiple Liability Orders against him but bailiffs can’t take anything from him as he lives with his sister, and his name is not on the deeds or mortgage.

• CMS never pursue criminal action even though they can as the cost is huge.

Need any further clarification?

@Malbucket

If we are just bothered with money the funniest thing is OP is really paying the majority of her own 'top up' benefits herself as she is also paying tax on what she earns!

Actually yes, the tax portion and top up portion are almost the same :)

@ivfbeenbusy why don't you get off your moral high horse ?? I'm in a similar situation as op single working mum but still struggling. There needs to more help for working single parents. My rent is sky high but I can't get a mortgage on less per month it's ludicrous.

Maybe the derogatory comments about claiming benefits can be directed at those that sit around all day without any intention to work and provide for their children ??

[quote MrsMaizel]@Fashionesta

Yes technically dog, car etc are luxuries. But are we honestly saying that those earning an average UK wage should not be able to have a decent life? Surely there is something wrong with that. I can afford my life

No you cannot afford your life if you are getting top up .[/quote]
Wether I spend all my money on shit or to out food in my daughter's table doesn't matter. I will still get the top up.

My whole point of this thread is that a good salary should not need a top up. The giv don't care what I spend my money on but clearly deems my salary not enough to meet my needs, mainly due to large rents.

This is what I'm trying to say. A living wage should be a living wage and not need too ups and I think everyone who works hard and long hours should not see a pet or an activity for a child as a luxury. Surely there is something wrong in that?

Also my ex could give me £500 a month. I'd still get a top up.

@GoodnightOwl

I'm in Cambridge, it's be at least £1000 a month for a 2 bed.

Us too. We have a really small mortgage ( we are extremely lucky) on an average 3 bed, and identical houses along our road are over £1700 a month if rented out. It's appalling. This city is a study in economic inequality.

@Minezatea

Honestly though, some of these comments. I've worked hard all my life, had a late career change, educated at post graduate level and do a job which actually helps a lot of sectors of society. But I should sleep on a sofa and sent my child any entertainment. Jesus wept. Pp was right, Mumsnet really is a race to the bottom at times

MN seems to be increasingly full of sanctimonious arses who can't imagine anyone else's less privileged position or honestly just don't care. I'd advise giving it a few days then reading their replies back as entertainment as many are laughably ridiculous. Meanwhile, I absolutely agree with your core point. You earn more than the national average wage and are just looking for a modest lifestyle in a small flat. You should be able to afford that and if you can't it suggests something is wrong with the system.

Thank you. Yes exactly! Oh and already chuckling at some of the comments. Multiple loans, after school activities and a car on finance is the best so far (fwiw I took a bank loan of a couple of grand on very low interest and my car is an old banger).

@Susannahmoody

But how can the dad not pay anything? HOW? He doesn't get to pick? I don't understand

Surely it’s not that hard to understand or so much of a surprise. The figures for parents not financially supporting themselves their own children are very high. No enforcement so both RP and NRP can opt out of doing it. Until we get someone in charge willing to make big changes nothing much will change.

I've been in the same situation OP. Luckily my ex paid for after school club and extra curricular activities otherwise my DC wouldn't be able to do anything. And I don't have a car which is annoying but manageable where we live.
It does seem wrong when you're on more than average income I agree.

@Dixiechickonhols

Gobsmacked at those who can’t understand how her take home is only £1800. I’m on similar wage public sector and only take home slightly more - I got a free uni education no student loan. OP may also be paying union or professional fees. It’s the standard pension contribution they deduct she’s not choosing to overpay. I’d guess op is a social worker or similar. Are we really saying that only northern towns with cheaper housing need these jobs. Swimming lessons are essential and cost less than taking a child swimming. I checked my local council pool is £5.30 a lesson. A child and adult swim is £7.60. It’s actually cheaper if you go weekly or more often to have annual swim membership at local prestigious private school kids - some posters would have a field day with that. Wages haven’t gone up. In my professional area and geographic location wages are pretty much what they were when I started out 20 years ago. Professional job requiring postgraduate study.

Yup. Tax, NI and work pension (which I'm grateful for) leaves me with £1850 month. No student loan as am old and funded part of my PG studies myself (through working). Council tax £120 on top of this. So after rent about £750 month. My bills come to £400 month. Heating has definitely gone up as WFH. Water, TV licence, insurance (which I value), I pay the council £50 month as had to take a loan for the deposit for my place as did not have the £1500 deposit and again grateful for that, wrap around care over £100 a month, broadband (a necessity for work), and so on. It mounts up. Oh and yes some activities for my daughter which obviously I shouldn't give her!!

This is what happens when the working population is brainwashed into believing that Unions are the devil's work and the Tories love you all and want the best for you. We, the plebs, exist to serve them and to cost our rulers as little as possible. Meanwhile our PM can't furnish a 2 bed flat on £30k as that's nowhere near enough.

Op, I frequent the property board on MN a lot and the advice on there is that a mortgage loan should never be more than a third of your income.

Your rent is half of your income and you are managing to work and raise your dd. You are doing amazingly well and of course you deserve help.

I wish the Conservatives hadn't fucked over social housing in this country so your wage could go further.

You are 100% right about a decent wage not going very far. People will always say that thing about the 'extras' as though only the comfortably off should be entitled to learn to swim or own a pet. It makes them feel better that they can go on lovely holidays and afford dance lessons and extra tutoring for their kids.

They probably 'worked hard' for their money too, unlike those lower wage earners, who just piss about at work having a laugh

Keep going op, I wish you many promotions and lottery wins!

Also, in this Country we treat a non-paying NRP with kid gloves.

If I get a speeding fine and didn't pay it, they will force me to do it. However, if I fuck off and don't pay towards the upkeep of my child, that doesn't seem to hold the same urgency for society.

No child whose parent is on benefits should be denied a right of a basic life lesson like swimming. Don't be so ridiculous.

You never know why someone is on benefits and the judging on this thread by some posters is disgusting.

Benefits system is there to help people so don't shame them. Of course you will get people that can work but won't for whatever reason but have some compassion.

OP has a top up which she is perfectly entitled too. I think some posters would rather you que up for the food bank and deny her DC of any activities.

I hope the judgemental posters on here, never end up in a tough finical position. I really do.

In a weird way, this thread reminds me of those threads where the OP. says, reasonably, “how can buying a normal house be so expensive and out of the reach of people on average salaries?”

It normally prompts a torrent of responses along the lines of:

• you’re just not trying hard enough

• you should live with your parents for seven years, eating nothing but dried noodles and drinking only tap water, to save a deposit.

• it’s your own fault for having eaten avocado on toast in 2019/having a mobile phone/having gone on holiday once. Frittering your money on extras.

• you can’t expect a decent house for you and your family. Move to Hartlepool, you can afford something there (the OP’s job, family and friends will be 200 miles away).

Every time it’s the OP’s fault. Not the fact that housing costs are barmy and that wages haven’t kept pace. No. Some of the responses on this thread are no different.

@Susannahmoody

But how can the dad not pay anything? HOW? He doesn't get to pick? I don't understand

Sorry but that is such a naive comment, this is the real world we live in. It is so so common for (mainly male) NRP's to be able to get away with paying zero.

My own XP is currently dodging and weaving and avoiding all responsibilities, hiding behind a company etc and he is in the UK. CMS are USELESS. There is no enforcement.

OP I'm on your side - it's a disgrace that a reasonable wage isn't enough.

@PandaLady

Op, I frequent the property board on MN a lot and the advice on there is that a mortgage loan should never be more than a third of your income.

Your rent is half of your income and you are managing to work and raise your dd. You are doing amazingly well and of course you deserve help.

I wish the Conservatives hadn't fucked over social housing in this country so your wage could go further.

You are 100% right about a decent wage not going very far. People will always say that thing about the 'extras' as though only the comfortably off should be entitled to learn to swim or own a pet. It makes them feel better that they can go on lovely holidays and afford dance lessons and extra tutoring for their kids.

They probably 'worked hard' for their money too, unlike those lower wage earners, who just piss about at work having a laugh

Keep going op, I wish you many promotions and lottery wins!

This!

Imagine that wages went up so much that a single parent household was able to comfortably afford hobbies, pets etc. No benefits needed.

Then households with two average wage workers would be absolutely swimming in cash.

These 2 parent families would have thousands to spend every month, over and above essentials and hobbies/pets.

Wonderful in theory. However then natural competition comes along and ruins it. Why would I sell my house for 300k if now there are many families who could pay £600k. Why would I give a swimming lesson for £5 when enough families would pay £10? Costs will just go up, and the single parent family will end up in the same position of not being able to afford things.

Perhaps to subsidise a single average-wage person with benefits is actually the right way to go. It means they are equalised more with 2-parent families, rather than just lifting the wages of everyone, which would just raise costs by the same amount.

Just because something is not perfect doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a better solution out there.

@XingMing

The answer is to force employers to pay proper money and contribute fairly to pensions. As long as big supermarkets advertise 16-hours per week jobs (just before the entitlement to sick pay, pension rights and UC kicks in) then the tax payer is not only paying tax on their salary, they are subsidising their cheapskate pay policies. Any employer paying less than a living wage is complicit. I have a cleaner, but she is paid £12.50 per hour -- for four hours a week. I am not her only customer. How Tesco etc. pay £9.something and rely on the state to make it up to a wage is beyond me.

Absolutely this. ANY company making millions in profits should by law offer full time positions at national LIVING wage as a minimum. It really is disgusting that Richard Branson etc can be so rich yet his employees have to claim uc. How is that right?

Yeah your rent is too much for what you earn

I earn same amount as you but I only pay 650£ rent & no car - so I’ve a lot more spare cash.

Do you have to have a car or could you manage without

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Did I mention tax?

You may think your lenders are the worst of the vulture capitalists but unlike you, they have thought this through. (Also, your scenario is not a business BTL).

@BlanketyBlanky

Imagine that wages went up so much that a single parent household was able to comfortably afford hobbies, pets etc. No benefits needed.

Then households with two average wage workers would be absolutely swimming in cash.

These 2 parent families would have thousands to spend every month, over and above essentials and hobbies/pets.

Wonderful in theory. However then natural competition comes along and ruins it. Why would I sell my house for 300k if now there are many families who could pay £600k. Why would I give a swimming lesson for £5 when enough families would pay £10? Costs will just go up, and the single parent family will end up in the same position of not being able to afford things.

Perhaps to subsidise a single average-wage person with benefits is actually the right way to go. It means they are equalised more with 2-parent families, rather than just lifting the wages of everyone, which would just raise costs by the same amount.

Just because something is not perfect doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a better solution out there.

I do understand the basis of what you're saying but I think it is undeniable that the cost of living HAS gone up whereas wages have not.

@BlanketyBlanky

Imagine that wages went up so much that a single parent household was able to comfortably afford hobbies, pets etc. No benefits needed.

Then households with two average wage workers would be absolutely swimming in cash.

These 2 parent families would have thousands to spend every month, over and above essentials and hobbies/pets.

Wonderful in theory. However then natural competition comes along and ruins it. Why would I sell my house for 300k if now there are many families who could pay £600k. Why would I give a swimming lesson for £5 when enough families would pay £10? Costs will just go up, and the single parent family will end up in the same position of not being able to afford things.

Perhaps to subsidise a single average-wage person with benefits is actually the right way to go. It means they are equalised more with 2-parent families, rather than just lifting the wages of everyone, which would just raise costs by the same amount.

Just because something is not perfect doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a better solution out there.

No what should be happening is the Op rents from council /HA at a reasonable rate and the profits from her rent are fed back to provide more sustainable housing or other council costs. Not just mr landlords bank account.

The ops rent for a flat should be c.600 a month and not what it is which would leave her able to live without requiring government top ups.

OP, I know this wasn’t the point of the thread but (a) thank you for sticking around and explaining more and debating, and not fleeing from the capitalist boot-lickers here (who I suspect are largely unhappy thinking that your benefits-adjacent DD might be doing swimming alongside their ‘hard-earned wages’ DC, as though poverty is catching) and (b) between the car loan, which I think you said was £150? and the council loan of £50, there will be a time when you’re better off by £200 a month, and things will be easier.

(Or it will get swallowed up by the cost of living/used to fund your hair shirt and move to an affordable sofa bed 300 miles away.) Could you also claim the tuppence-ha’penny WFH allowance? And hopefully summer will grind into gear eventually and heating bills will go down. And you’ll still get your top-up! (Every time it lands in your account, do a little ‘F-you, MN witches’ victory dance, please.) And also we’ll rise up en masse to topple the capitalist system and ban the ‘landlording as replacement for job/income’ that’s part of this whole mess.