School not in its own catchment area.

[ThanksForAllTheFish]

I’m I the only one that thinks this is crazy?

The catchment area for the school doesn’t include the actual school, school grounds or surrounding houses. The houses facing the school are out of catchment. I’m taking all the houses surrounding the school on all sides - and the next 12 streets (at least) over in one direction anyway. The other three directions are all out of catchment completely.

It’s not even that great of a school- it’s ok but not a top performer. It’s more for the convenience of living directly across to road and having a less than 1 minute walk to the front gate vs a 45 minute walk to what is considered our catchment school.

If you physically lived inside the school you would be out of catchment. If you live 2 miles up the road you will be in catchment.

I’m just feeling frustrated with it all at the moment and I wanted to vent a little.

We have something similar, we live opposite a school. But the actual entrance distance is done from the main site 800-900m away.

So nope. DC don’t go to the school we live next to, we just get to enjoy the Chelsea tractors ..

It’s madness- the school is outside it’s own catchment area. You need to live nowhere near it to get in. It’s like someone picked it up, moved it two miles away from where it should be and dropped it down in a completely different area. It’s all in the same local authority area too so it just makes no sense.

Presumably the catchment was defined with regard to what other schools in the local authority have as their catchment? So every house has a catchment school. Even though for some it won't be the nearest school.

Or is the school on a temporary site?

We sort of have this for DDs primary. The nearest village 2 miles down the road has no school (it did have but they closed it as it only had 2 classes for the entire school) so they are the catchment for the school anyone with a postcode on the 4 streets in the village gets in above anyone who lives opposite the school. It makes sense to some extent as the street opposite has another school 0.9m away which is too far from the village (2.9 miles) but it can be a nightmare in years it's over subscribed.

We have similar near us. it's a new school built for children in Area A, but there was nowhere to put it in area A so it's built in area B (London & not much space)

When parents apply their address has to be a certain distance from a designated fixed point in area A, not the school address as is normal.

Children from area B do not get in to the school, even if they live next door

It’s a bit complicated. The school used to be in catchment. Then they closed it and merged it with a school 2 miles away to the east.

The following year they closed another school 2.5 miles to the west and sold the land to a company to build a shopping mall. They moved everyone from that school to the empty school across the road from me as the building was still sitting empty. They kept to catchment for that other school.

So effectively they kicked out all the local kids to a school miles away and moved a whole different set of kids into it. All so they could sell the land for profit.

The school that is now our catchment is oversubscribed and has lots of ‘temporary’ huts to cope with the numbers.

The school across the road has a larger capacity and going by the numbers is usually under capacity.

I’ve appealed my placing request refusal so we will see what happens.

Sounds like they may need to redo the catchment boundaries if one is full and the other not.

I used to live 100m from a school.... At the edge of catchment. The catchment went several miles in the other direction. But it made sense as it was at the edge of town and went into the countryside, where other town schools covered the town.

I suspect it's because the schools aren't evenly spread across the district. We had a similar arrangement in that left of the school was out of catchment for DD's school but that was due to another school being next door!

Honestly the closing and moving of the two schools and swap around was done so the council could sell the land for the shopping mall to be built.

There is another two high schools over that area that they could have split the children between. Some of the children live nearer to the other schools than the one across the road from me.

The school my daughter is expected to go to is the only one in that area and it has a massive catchment (hence why it’s so over subscribed). It’s basically merged 3 other high schools into it the last 10 years and is bursting at the seams.

I’m hoping that my appeal goes through and she gets in. Sometimes they do let children in who live near the school if it’s not too high of an intake year.

I’ve heard back from another parent in my daughters who lives further away from me (as in ever further out of catchment) and her daughter has got in. She got in in the basis her older sibling went there (years ago as she is now 21 years old so been out of school for a few years) and that was before the change of catchment / schools thing happened. There’s a sibling box you can tick on the placing request form and it doesn’t have a time limit on how long ago they left.

*daughters class

You talk about 'placing requests' - is this Scotland?

The whole situation does indeed seem crazy.
But what I also don't understand, OP, is why your DD didn't get in if it's under capacity? In England if a school isn't full then every child that applied gets a place. Assuming you're in Scotland, is it different there?

@TeenMinusTests - Yes it is Scotland.

I just want to vent my frustration really and I know we do have different policies regarding education from England but I also know there are similar frustrations all over with this sort of thing.

Now I’m in limbo as by doing a placing request for the school across the road I have given up my right to a place in my actual catchment school.

The council do have to find us a school place somewhere but it could be anywhere in the city. If we appeal and don’t get in I have no idea where we will end up. It will most likely be the catchment school but could equally be 5 -10 miles away. I also wouldn’t find out for sure until the summer holidays. I think they do this to discourage you from applying to a school that isn’t your catchment but I would have been crazy not to try.

My daughter has been crying tonight now as her two friends have both been accepted (and again live further away from the school and the catchment area than us) and she hasn’t. Sibling thing again for one and not sure what the other could have put in the form to get them accepted. There’s only a few boxes you can tick and (like us) none of them apply to that child.

I thought it was worth clarifying as otherwise people will give advice that isn't relevant.
I never knew that placing requests meant you were no longer guaranteed your catchment - that does seem harsh, though i suppose the disincentive reason makes some sense.

@TeenMinusTests
I didn’t mention it in my original post as usually mentioning you are in Scotland is a instant thread killer on mumsnet. I noticed it a good few years ago so generally only mention it if asked or absolutely necessary.

Did you not register for the catchment school? In Edinburgh they ask you to register for catchment school and then apply for an out of catchment school so you at least have the fall back of the catchment if the placing request is unsuccessful.

Sorry OP for 'outing' your location, especially if all you really wanted was a vent not advice. I just didn't want the thread to be filled with English based advice as our systems are so different.
Hope you get a satisfactory solution.

I know one a bit like that.

It's the satellite site of another school, and admissions are all done from the main school site (by distance, no formal catchment). I think it's crazy, as DC literally on the same street are counted as at a greater distance than those who live over a mile away near the other site.

The sites operate as separate schools under one umbrella IYSWIM, so it's not a case of mixing and mingling one community as they go through - they're separate in all but name and HT/governors.

Utterly crazy.

It is a crazy system. All it means is that even more people drive their kids to school.

My sister's kids live in a town with no catchment areas. Am not sure which is worse!

Its a bit like that in grammar school towns too.

You can have lots of schools all within walking or bus distance but between faith schools and grammar schools you cant actually access any of them.

Then the roads get clogged up with everyone being bused in while the locals fight fir scraps

We have something very similar here. A group of villages are the catchment for a school in the city. The nearer city kids can only get a place if there’s any left after the village kids have been allocated.

Similar story that there used to be a secondary school in one of the villages which was closed. So a deal was done to ensure the village kids have a catchment school.

But it’s a pain as the admission rules aren’t actually living in the village, it’s about going to one of the village primary schools. Dd didn’t go to one of these primary schools and in year 5 we realised she wasn’t going to get a place at any secondary school. We had to move her to the village primary in year 6!

Bit rusty on this but education appeals panel have to consider the decision about your child's school against the policy. So if the policy is correctly applied they can't change decision.
The policy is made once a year by the council and should be agreed either by committee or lead councillor . There should be a report setting it out that you can ask dor a copy of. If Eductions admissions can't provide ask democratic services. May be too late this year but you could challenge the decision in future years. Your local cllr should be able to advise.

@LoopyGremlin - No in a Glasgow you are automatically registered for your catchment secondary school (either non denominational or catholic depending on the primary school your child attends). I got a letter to say my daughter was registered to her catchment secondary.

With the letter they provided a form to apply for a placement at a different school however it states that by doing so you are giving up the right to the place in your catchment school. So we filled out to form to get her into the school across the road.

Our primary school advised that and said the children from their school always get in. I’ve not heard of another child who hasn’t been accepted yet - only us. I’m on the Facebook group and at last count 16 people have said the placing requests have been accepted. Some children will be there automatically as they live inside catchment. Every comment has said they are surprised I’ve been refused as no one ever gets refused a place from the school. Even the girl in DDs class that lives in the house opposite us has been accepted.

The class has had teachers out visiting from the school we have been refused. My daughter has had an online induction. She’s been given a print out floor map of the school. The school has been talking to her class as if they are all moving in to that school. My daughter is a quiet kid, rarely in trouble, average student - good at English and art, middle ground in maths, hates sport. Good at music. No learning difficulties or behaviour issues that would cause the school admissions to think the school wouldn’t be a good fit for her.

The reason they have stated on the letter is basically the school has no spaces left.

The school has 3 intake primary schools. Taken from their official websites the total number of pupils in primary 7 from all three schools combined is 182. The school has the capacity for 300 S1 pupils.

If every primary 7 in my daughters school was also accepted it would take the numbers to 237.
That is still way under their capacity. I’m not sure what other children they have admitted to reach capacity- it’s not that popular of a school really. It’s not high in the league tables and is not in a super posh area. We are talking not even in the top 100 on the league tables. The other school is actually 2 points higher than this school. Maybe at a push there’s one more school further out that some children apply from, I can’t imagine why as they are much closer to the other high school.

Truly baffled by it all. My daughter was crying at bedtime last night as she will be the only one not go and is terrified at the thought of having to go to the other school knowing no one (she’s quiet and shy and it takes her a while to make friends). I feel so bad for her, I really do.

That’s different from here then. You are automatically given the catchment school even if you are making a placement request.

Seems odd that your daughter has been refused a place if you are saying there’s others who have been accepted who are further away from the chosen school than you are and that there’s capacity. I’d definitely appeal the decision.

Can you make an appointment to speak with the head? I'm in Scotland and did this prior to a placing request. I think it helped but maybe there a different policy in your area.