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Original poster

Child's first British passport (citizen by descent)

29 replies

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 11:39

I'm wondering if there is anyone on here that has been in the same position as us and can give some advice on applying for our children's first British passports. The list of documents they are asking for is insane and I'm almost certain it can't be right.

I am a British citizen by birth (i.e. otherwise than by descent), both my parents are lifelong British citizens and I was born in England (after 1983). I now live abroad and my two children were born here, meaning that they are automatically British citizens by descent. They have a right to a British passport. My partner, their father, is not a British citizen and neither are their paternal grandparents.

It is perfectly reasonable that I have to prove my children's identity and then establish their claim to British citizenship to get their first British passports. So I can easily understand that I have to provide a) their birth certificate, b) my own birth certificate and c) my passport number (my current passport is valid for a period that covers both my kids' births).

Why is the website asking me for my parents' birth certificates and marriage certificate? I do understand that I have to prove that I am a citizen 'otherwise than by descent' as I know that 'citizens by descent' are not able to pass on citizenship to children born abroad. I know that since I was born after 1983 my birth certificate alone is not enough to prove that I am a citizen at all. But it's not possible to be a citizen by descent if you were born in the UK, so my passport and birth certificate in conjunction should conclusively prove that I am a citizen and that I have the right to pass that citizenship on to my foreign-born children.

And why the fuck is it asking for my kids' PATERNAL grandparents' birth certificates and marriage certificates? This is obviously nonsense - the entire paternal side of their family is foreign and has nothing to do with their right to a passport.

Is this website just badly designed? Or if I was feeling cynical I might ask whether it was deliberately designed to be off-putting for foreign-born British citizens trying to access their rights? Do I actually need to provide all this mass of meaningless evidence? I have sent the Passport Office several queries but they won't respond to me.

OP posts:

Gerla · 21/04/2021 11:45

That doesn't sound right to me. I am in your same situation, albeit born before 1983. I didn't have to present paternal certificates as they had nothing to do with their claim to British citizenship.

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 11:46

This is what the website is saying when I fill in the application correctly up to the point of paying (which I haven't done yet - I was just checking what would be required).

Child's first British passport (citizen by descent)

OP posts:

LaTomatina · 21/04/2021 11:57

I am in a similar situation to you. My kids have dual nationality and I found it very easy and straightforward to apply online for their UK passports. I did it last year, I don't know if Brexit has made the process more complicated?

All I had to provide was originals of their birth certificates and my birth certificate (to prove that I am their mother, and a British citizen.). I also had to send photocopies of every single page of their other nationality passports (including the blank pages) which was a ball ache to do because I have 4 children and it took all evening!!! And upload professional photos, which was also easy.

That was it, had emails every week or so to update me on the progress of the all the applications individually, and had all the documents back and the new passports within a month. I know they mention other documents may be necessary, but I think you usually only have to provide the basics, they will contact you and explain why if they need anything else.

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 11:58

@Gerla

That doesn't sound right to me. I am in your same situation, albeit born before 1983.

I didn't have to present paternal certificates as they had nothing to do with their claim to British citizenship.

Did you give them details about your own parents, though? I'm struggling to understand why they even need that?

OP posts:

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 12:01

LaTomatina That is good to hear and it's what I expected before I looked into this (the passport photocopying does sound like a pain in the arse, though).

Were you applying from the UK or from abroad? I've been messing around on the website changing details and I think this might be what triggers them to ask for such a huge list of evidence, the fact that we'll be applying from abroad. But I can't understand why on earth this should be the case!

OP posts:

LaTomatina · 21/04/2021 12:02

That bit about the grandparents on your screenshot definitely wasn't there when I applied last winter!!! Bonkers. I would phone them and query it??

LaTomatina · 21/04/2021 12:03

I applied from abroad, Puffinshop (Slovenia).

Raggeo · 21/04/2021 12:07

I was in same situation. I contacted them directly to discuss. Think I tried phoning but then found a live chat function on the website. Preferred that so I could screen shot what they said and keep it,in case of problems. I did need to send my parents birth certificates and marriage certificate. I needed to include a letter explaining that my child was claiming nationality through my parents only and that my husband's parents were not British nationals or passport holders. That seemed to do the trick and got passport with no problem.

Raggeo · 21/04/2021 12:11

Forgot to say that my child was born outside of the UK and we were living abroad at the time I applied. I ended up having to mail all the documents to my parents who then added their documents and sent it on to the passport office.

ichundich · 21/04/2021 12:12

Seems weird that you have to give details of paternal grandparents! I got naturalized as an EU national with permanent residency a few years ago and had to give full details of my non-British parents - birth dates and country, marriage (possibly even their profession). According to the application form this was 'in case they are / were also British in some way and I just don't happen to know it'. Or maybe the government is collecting (and using) people's data. Ancestry.co.uk?!

DoYouRememberTheInnMiranda · 21/04/2021 12:12

I remember having to find my parents marriage details despite having given birth in Britain and both sides being British as far back as we know. I think it's a badly designed website for everyone, and I have no idea what happens if you don't have access to that information.

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 12:27

I think at a maximum I'd send my mother's birth certificate, on a first attempt at least. That would prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that I was born a British citizen (though I still believe that my passport and birth certificate together also prove that I'm a citizen otherwise than by descent). I just can't imagine why the rest of it is even slightly relevant.

My children are not claiming nationality through my parents, they are claiming nationality through ME, their mother!

OP posts:

Gerla · 21/04/2021 12:49

Did you give them details about your own parents, though? I'm struggling to understand why they even need that?
I cant remember sorry!

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 21/04/2021 13:27

Last one I did I didn't need my parents info. I was born in UK had my BC and I had got registration of birth abroad for my boys which is a birth certificate. I had to send thier foreign BC and passports and my BC and passport. They have certainly added a new layer there. Things I wouldn't have had access to.

GreenLeafTurnip · 21/04/2021 13:36

Call them. I had the same questions and in the end I just sent my parents passport numbers and marriage certificate along with my stuff. Very easy. I sent a cover letter as well.

GreenLeafTurnip · 21/04/2021 13:37

This was approx 2 years ago.

QuentininQuarantino · 21/04/2021 13:39

I had to do that about 3 and 6 years ago. The 3 year old was easier as I had the documents from the first time round. DM was born in scotland so i couldn't just buy her birth certificate like you can for English ones, luckily she still had it!

I remember only having one marriage certificate too and it was okay. I phoned the passport office before and they said to only send the marraige certificate if I could. It is a bit of a frustration.

The cost was also astronomical considering all the documents, certified translations and DHL!

BlackCatShadow · 21/04/2021 13:41

I think British by Descent is something else. Your child is British but born abroad. I am in the same situation and I didn’t need the grandparent stuff.

allofthecheese · 21/04/2021 13:49

I applied for DSs last year and I got the same message. I'm british and husband is not. I rang them and said it would be impossible to provide them with the documents listed online such as the grandparents marriage certificate(!). I was told not to worry, it was a mistake and to just send everything else as it wasn't a requirement due to my citizenship.

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 14:01

They are definitely British by descent. That just means they were born outside the UK and at least one of their parents was a British citizen otherwise than by descent at the time of their birth.

If my children ever have children born outside the UK, those children won't have a claim to British citizenship. It's just a distinction to stop people passing on citizenship for multiple generations without actually living in the UK (you can do that with some nationalities, like Irish I believe).

The cost was also astronomical considering all the documents, certified translations and DHL!

Tell me about it! If I actually took that website at face value and got all those documents (6 documents just for grandparents x2 if I want to apply for both children at the same time) it would cost a fortune! Luckily I live in a country that will issue official birth certificates in English, although that isn't the national language, so I don't have to worry about certified translations at least.

Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences, they are very helpful to read!

OP posts:

Gerla · 21/04/2021 14:04

Also I seem to remember that you have to pay to send each passport separately even when they are in the same family! If you are going to be in the UK at any time for a while, it is cheaper to do it there.

QuentininQuarantino · 21/04/2021 16:03

Be careful though Op - not sure where you live but in Spain I was given both an English BC and a Spanish one. The uk sent the English one back because it wasn’t the main one and insisted on a translation of the main one even though the info was the same! So double check that the English one isn’t a shorter “international” one (obviously ignore me if you’re in an anglophone country!)

Also, maybe those PP that didn’t need grandparent details were born before 1983? It’s definitely harder for ppl born after.

Original poster

PuffinShop · 21/04/2021 16:51

Yeah pre/post 1983 clearly matters. But I think this is because that's when jus soli was abolished. So my post-1983 birth certificate proves that I was born in England but not that I am a British citizen. If you were born before 1983 your own birth certificate would be enough, but that's not enough for me. In conjunction with my passport, though, which proves that I definitely am a citizen and was so at the time of my children's birth, there's nothing left to be proved unless I am missing something important! I think all this grandparent stuff might be for people who don't have a British passport for whatever reason?

This document (www.gov.uk/government/publications/birth-certificates-and-the-full-birth-certificate-policy/birth-certificates-and-the-full-birth-certificate-policy) clearly states that "British citizens born in the UK will be otherwise than by descent irrespective of how they gain their citizenship."

OP posts:

arinah · 21/04/2021 17:17

Hi OP, I was born in UK in 1991 and noticed that when applying for my daughter's passport as well. I contacted the Passport Office and told them that I don't have access to my parents birth certificates or marriage certificate since both were overseas. They advised me to write a note to provide with the other documents stating this, and that as the main applicant, my British citizenship is enough for the application. This worked for me and had no issues with DDs application, it came through in the post within 10 days of applying :)

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 21/04/2021 17:21

Did you register the baby as a birth abroad it makes things easier.
www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

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