Do you think dog bites will become a big problem?

[GoToSleepBabyPlease]

Given the popularity of lockdown puppies, do you think we'll see a rise in poorly trained/untrained young dogs and, as a result, an increased number of dog bites in public?

@bunniesanddaisies

I think it’s going to have to be an ‘I’ll believe it when I see it’ sunflowers

Sadly I suspect a lot of people will rehome privately or will just keep their dogs and subject to them benign neglect instead.

I absolutely believe that sunflowers

But I do think just sometimes MN can be a bit unpleasant about ‘new’ dog owners (I don’t mean you, I know you’re not like that) - we were all new to it once and just because you haven’t done it before doesn’t mean you can’t do it well. A bit like parenting!

Obviously, the more people who do something, the more idiots will do it - if the population shot up by 50% then there would be more drunk drivers, more domestic violence incidents and more murders. The more dogs there are the more dogs will be rehomed. But I do think people who waited for a good moment to get a dog probably are not the sort of people to just abandon said dog.

My children (8 & 10) are very wary around dogs after years of being jumped at, pushed around, picnics raided etc since they were in their prams. I've trained them to stand still if a dog approaches them.

We had an encounter a few weeks ago where the dog bounded up to my 8yo and jumped up leaving mud over his coat, and winding him slightly. 8yo, distressed and calling out that the dog is attacking him (first the dog is much bigger and relative to his body size, second he's a child and has a child's emotional reaction), owner doesn't try to recall the dog, does the "it's a puppy" excuse and generally obnoxious and unappologetic about his out of control dog causing distress to others.
It's OK for his puppy to cause distress, but not OK for my "puppy" to react by being distressed. Oh and we should expect it in the woods because it's a dog walking place!

Next day I was running alone in quiet countryside. Puppy bounds up and is jumpy. Owners tried to call it off as it approached, came and got it, put it on a lead and at least attempted to manage the dog's behaviour and were appologetic. Annoying, but they were trying and it is a location where the chances of encountering a non-dog walker is pretty low.

I know which dog I'd rather encounter in a year's time...

I'd like to see a campaign to improve awareness of what responsible dog ownership looks like. The legal bar on "out of control" is lower than you think and the first owner was in breech of that, second owner wasn't although if my 8yo had been there, especially after the previous day, he would have been distressed.

My retort to "It's OK he's friendly!" is "my child isn't"

I'm not sure that it's particularly worse since lockdown, we seemed to get it a lot for years anyway, but it's got better as my DCs have got older and able to manage their fears better. Training them that when they run away, the dog thinks it's tag and plays along was a long lesson. It had been a while since having incidents in close succession.

Problems with dogs may not be limited to puppies and inecperienced owners. Older dogs struggling with routine change, having less time left to themselves and disruption in veterinary care would also affect behaviour too.

I hate it when people just dismiss evidence because it doesn’t fit in with their preconceived notions.

'become'?? 250000 dog bites a year, said the nurse doing the treatment two years ago. With all the entitled and their lockdown fur babies now growing into psychotic shit machines with teeth, it doesn't bear thinking about .

One bite or threatened bite, one shot, one fine for the owner. Happens again - one jail sentence. £2000 a year licence fee except for assistance dogs. That should cut the population down.

I hope not but think it could.

We had a run in with a dog owner on our street, it twice chased and nipped my DS and OH when the ride passed on bikes. The owner did the usual "oh he wouldn't hurt anyone"

We did involve the police and they were hopeless, as the lady was moving they thought it ok, all it did was move the problem elsewhere as the dog started terrorising the elderly neighbours where she moved to

I wouldn't be surprised if the incidents increased. Dogs that are never allowed to be let off the lead or meet other dogs when puppies are far more likely to grow into aggressive adults who are trying to "protect" their owner and won't understand normal doggy socialisation behaviour.

As so many people have new puppies and haven't socialised with other due to lockdown, the cases of aggressive dogs or over excited dogs is likely to happen.

Also the parks being used far more by humans due to lockdown isn't going to help as the dogs won't be able to get as much exercise and play as much as they need.

@LegoPirateMonkey

The increasing posts about these incidents on MN are worrying me and I have reconsidered where I take my children out. It’s the enormous dogs that are fashionable - even if ‘just’ poorly trained rather than fully aggressive, they can do so much damage to a small child. It does amaze me that people are allowed to just own them with no checks or requirements or enforcement of responsible ownership. I regularly see people walking bear-sized dogs that they could never physically restrain if they needed to. It seems like a disaster in the making.

Especially Malamutes (the Husky type dogs). Dont get me wrong, they are beautiful, and lovely animals. But they are bred for running large distances every day, as a pack, and for pulling. They are NOT suitable "family" dogs (for most families, of course if you run 20 miles a day and have large house and garden it might be different). They have a very strong hunting instinct typically, and as you said no way could even a strong adult physically restrain them if they really wanted to go. But, yay, they look a bit like Direwolves from GOT and the husband gets to describe himself as an "alpha" so who cares.

@bunniesanddaisies

I think it’s going to have to be an ‘I’ll believe it when I see it’ sunflowers

Let's wait until lockdown finishes and furlough ends, shall we?

I'm not sure the rise in puppies will because the direct cause.

I think puppies being trained but under very different conditions to the norm and so not use to crowds of people - could have an effect - yes.

We've all talked about young children born into or the year before lockdown going to have been affected due to lack of socialisation.

It makes sense other animal kind will be affected the same way.

I think that will be very interesting Miljea although as sunflowers has said many will be rehomed privately.

If anyone is concerned about dogs biting, then it's worth knowing that

a) with the exception of the most traumatised dogs, they use biting only as a last resort

b) a dog that bites will have given off a lot of signals that essentially say "I'm not comfortable". When someone refers to a dog biting 'for no reason' or 'out of nowhere' it's almost always because that dog's signals have been ignored. This is a decent video that will help you to understand the body language of an uncomfortable dog (though it's also worth learning to recognise the body language of a happy playful dog, such as a play bow)

c) I suspect that a lot of the lockdown puppies will have been taken out for lots of walks (because what else is there to do?) so will be reasonably nice out and about. If they've not been trained properly, they'll likely fall into the 'nice but naughty' category of dogs that might jump up or raid a picnic - not acceptable, but very different to a dog bite.

d) as an illustration of the fact that dogs only use biting as a last resort, even most fights between two dogs don't result in a bite. The vast majority produce a lot of noise, a lot of teeth, and are generally unpleasant, but no blood is drawn.

e) the vast majority of dog bites are on members of the household. As someone simply walking through a park you would have to be incredibly unlucky to be bitten by a dog.

I doubt it. A dog of sound temperament won't bite a human just because it is young and untrained. Terrible manners and bad recall, yes, so we can probably expect to see more out of control dogs jumping up and running off and generally misbehaving but most won't bite just for lack of training unless they are frightened or threatened.

Dog on dog aggression I think will increase because these lock down puppies won't have been able to attend any puppy groups or obedience classes where they learn to mix with other puppies and are taught social skills and pecking order by the older dogs.

Socialisation is very important for puppies. Otherwise you get a similar effect to when you have a child who has never been around other children. They know how to behave around adults but no idea how the relate to their peers. Or the opposite with children who have never been taught how to behave in public with grown ups.

It's not that they are bad dogs or vicious, they just have no experience and don't know how to play nicely. They're children who don't know any better.

This is an interesting read because about a month ago I did get bitten by a dog I walked past in the street and I was so surprised! It was a curly white poodle type dog on a lead and it went for my leg and broke through my jeans and skin (not badly at all but would have been dangerous if I was a toddler obvs) - appreciate it was probably stressed by something but genuinely not by anything I had done.

I doubt it. A dog of sound temperament won't bite a human just because it is young and untrained.

I would disagree. Any dog has the ability and capacity to bite - a young and utrained dog even more so.

@sunflowersandbuttercups Technically any human has the capacity and ability to kill someone but a person of sound temperament with no provocation will not do so. Can doesn't mean likely to.

Nice idea, @AvocadosBeforeMortgages, but the dangerous dogs round here go for passersby and cyclists without provocation. And that is discounting the ones that just bark for ages whenever someone passes the house. Quiet semi rural village where being a pillar of the church lets you get away with all sorts.

[quote nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut]@sunflowersandbuttercups Technically any human has the capacity and ability to kill someone but a person of sound temperament with no provocation will not do so. Can doesn't mean likely to.[/quote]
Comparing humans to dogs isn't logical, though.

Humans have many defences available to them before resorting to violence. Most humans don't speak "dog" and therefore dogs often have little choice but to resort to the growling/snarling/biting if their body language is constantly ignored.

@murbblurb

Nice idea, *@AvocadosBeforeMortgages*, but the dangerous dogs round here go for passersby and cyclists without provocation. And that is discounting the ones that just bark for ages whenever someone passes the house. Quiet semi rural village where being a pillar of the church lets you get away with all sorts.

Given that you're quite clearly a dog hater - seeing as upthread you've said you would like to see a £2k per year dog licence fee - I can see your mind is closed to facts and reality, because you are so blinded by hatred.

I’m not a dog hater, in fact quite the opposite and have had many dogs in the past but I still believe licenses are a good idea, along with much tighter restrictions on breeders and more education on dog handling such as compulsory dog/puppy ownership classes.

@Poorlykitten

I’m not a dog hater, in fact quite the opposite and have had many dogs in the past but I still believe licenses are a good idea, along with much tighter restrictions on breeders and more education on dog handling such as compulsory dog/puppy ownership classes.

Name change fail?

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages amazingly I like cats too. I know it’s impossible to comprehend on MN. I work for a rescue charity so pretty much all over all gods creatures....who would have thought that tighter controls in dogs might be a good idea and that some responsible dog owners might be all for it???😉

@hellywelly3

I think the problem is more people treating their dog like a child. Spoiling a dog can be dangerous when a dog doesn’t know it’s place, they’re pack animals and need treating as such. Not cruel or unkind but as a dog not a child. A dog must be under control either on a lead or with excellent recall coming to heel immediately no matter the distraction.

Dogs are social animals. The whole 'dogs are pack animals' thing is a favourite of dominance theory twats.

There is nothing wrong with treating a dog like a child, unless you spoil your children relentlessly and don't enforce any boundaries.

They are already a problem, one that was growing before lockdown but has only been exacerbated by it. I don’t know what the answer is, automatic bans on owning dogs for owners whose dog has bitten someone? More zero tolerance approach to dogs attacking children meaning they are automatically pts? The problem with all these things is the really dangerous owners wouldn’t adhere to the punishment. But if the merely feckless and ineffective owners could be put off that would be a start on reducing the sheer number of badly behaved dogs and owners in every park and beach every bloody day.

Wouldn’t surprise me. Since lockdown ended the school run has been a nightmare with all of the extra dogs. Most of them seem to be cockerpoo/poodle crosses/sausage dogs and they bark or jump up at you as they pass, the owners seem to have no control of them.