How to approach an inheritance conversation

[Ifilikedthewayilook]

This sounds very dispassionate, so I’ll say first neither of my parents are in good health and my sister and I love each other very much and get on brilliantly.

My sister and I will inherit our parents property. It’s 3 bedrooms but small, needs significant upgrading but is in a good area with great schools, a few yards from the beach and has a big garden with off road space. It’s probably worth £120k as is. My sisters kids who are 12 and 6 years older than mine are either well on the property ladder or ready to move abroad. When my parents pass I would like to buy my sister out and sell the house to my son. I’ll hopefully be able to help with the deposit though he’s saving hard too. I couldn’t both buy her out and gift it and neither would I want to - he’ll pay his way. With upgrade that we could do with the help of professional builders and family skills he could increase the value significantly. The semi next door has sold for £200k with upgrade but half garden and no off road space.

Is it fair of me to try to buy my sister out at the current market price knowing the upgrades will increase the value? She’ll know this too. The family skills will come from my partner and my son’s dad rather than my sister. She can always refuse of course and I’d make sure she takes advice.

I think she’d probably love the idea of our childhood home remaining in the family for a while longer, knowing her kids weren’t potential buyers. But I want be fair and need objective views. Cheers

First @Zenithbear my parents haven’t heard anything. Only the anonymous people on this thread have.

Second, if I spoke to my parents and said “all things being well with sis, when you’ve passed I’d like to sell your house to your grandson to get him in the property ladder, and we’ll do what next door have done to theirs”, I can promise you that my parents would be overjoyed. What kind of parents and grandparents don’t want the best for and to help their family? Their grandkids are their joy and they’re beyond proud of everything the achieve. You and others have inserted bad intent into my motives where there is none. But then every family is different and maybe you’d have reason to doubt your kids motives.

What you're thinking about is sensible. I'm from an equally pragmatic family and we often discuss wills and death and inheritance.

Other people are very emotive about things like this, hence some of the off responses.

I think that if you bought her out of a house worth (for example) £120k, did it up and then sold on the normal market for £210k and pocketed the profit, that would take the piss. But if you get it valued by a few people, take an average and buy out at that price point to sell to your son, then I couldn't have a problem with it.

Thanks @daisyjgrey, that’s helpful.

OP, I assume your parents have been married for a long time. Were they to divorce, presumably your mother would receive 50% of the house, regardless of how it was originally purchased. Why would that be any different when your father dies?

I also find it extremely odd that your father is leaving the house to his two daughters. The norm world be for it to be left to the other partner and upon their death, it would then be left to you.

@Crankley my MIL's council care home is infinitely better than my mum's private one. The latter does stink of wee sometimes. The former is light, bright and sparkling clean.

The council run one is run for the residents. The staff have been there forever and love their job and their residents. The private one is run to make a profit for its owners, so staffing is cut to the bone, working conditions aren't good, and the turnover of unengaged staff is rapid.

My 88 year old mum is alive and though needing care since she had a massive stroke a decade ago, she is otherwise healthy. But when she dies she is going to leave a very complex situation behind her, involving a rental house and some weird investments that we know nothing about.

Like the OP, I am thinking ahead. I am not wishing my mum dead, I just need to know what I and my brother will be dealing with, rather than waiting and having to deal with it all when we're grieving and managing funerals etc. There may be steps that need taking now that will make life easier at that point. I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking these things through. Especially as the council is also pushing for some significant costs to be refunded on her death. I need to understand the legalities beforehand, as well as whether her investments will cover it.

There is nothing grabby or morbid about gathering information that will be needed at some point in the future.

Because @crankly divorce law and probate law are 2 different things.

Dad, with mum’s agreement bequeathed the house to his daughters rather than mum to avoid the care home fees issue for mum.

And agree with @saraclara, my experience of council run homes is far better than private homes. Plus more regulation.

Wait till they've died before deciding how to split the spoils. How unseemly.

@saraclara my friend lost her mum a month ago, having lost her dad a few years before and having complex admin to deal with them as her mum was already unwell. This time she and her brother took time to talk everything through with their mum and line up what was needed. She can now focus on her grief. Good to hear your mum retains her health

I am sorry that your Dad is ill OP, but I repeat you're a peach.

@PurpleRainDancer

I am sorry that your Dad is ill OP, but I repeat you're a peach.

When my husband was dying, I did all I could to plan for what would happen after his death. And he wanted me to.

If I was the mother in the OP's case (who probably has had conversations with her DH about his will) I wouldn't be uncomfortable at all about this sort of planning, because I'd know for certain that the house is going to belong to the daughters.

What I do find obnoxious or when people plan for inheritance that they don't know that they'll get, assuming without reason that what belongs to their parents is somehow theirs, without their parents having these discussions with them.

OP's parents have been open and transparent and obviously involved their daughters in their planning.

In this case the house WILL belong to OP.

I don't understand how your dad in his dying weeks, thinks it's reasonable to actively take steps to leave your DM with with next to no assets to avoid paying potential care home fees.
That says a lot I'm afraid.
And no bitterness. I've had an inheritance.

Ifilikedthewayilook
But then every family is different and maybe you’d have reason to doubt your kids motives.

No not at all and yes from reading your comments I would say we are enormously different to you.
Your planning what to do with their money once they have died greed is thinly veiled with all this we love each other very much blah blah blah.

So as tax payers, we're paying for your mum's care, if needed - so your son can inherit a 50% share of her house?
That's great - glad to be of service to your family.

It’s really tricky because it safeguards the inheritance at the expense of your mum’s independence and ability to make future decisions for herself - I suspect that you all infantilise her a little bit, though I don’t doubt that comes with a lot of love and protectiveness.

OP You are being very naive to say that council funded care must be better than private. Some may be good; some may not. My experience of care is that it is very difficult to get good care full stop. Many people top up their funding to be able to choose where we will suit them best. Are you really saying that you would not consider using the money from your mum's house to fund her care should that be the best for her? What if she wanted to stay at home and could do so with some private carers? I have had an inheritance from my grandparents, but if my grandfather had needed to spend his money to fund his care then that would have been the right thing to do. All this talk about being practical and organised really is just greed. You want to get your son in a good position and are thinking about modernising and buying your sister out of a house that really should belong to your mum. I know that my mum has left her assets to my sister and I. I also know that she may need to spend those assets to take care of herself. I don't need to discuss who would buy who out and the ins and outs of doing up the house beforehand. Of course we want to pass on our assets to our children but the fact remains that those children should be able to put our parents first rather than taking the money.

Are you really saying that you would not consider using the money from your mum's house to fund her care should that be the best for her?

No, I’m not saying that. I answered you when you asked this earlier.

And to be clear, none of the negative replies move me in the least.

I don’t really understand people saying they are against inheritance planning. Legal inheritance planning is advisable, as is talking about money well in advance.

It's still a WTF from me.

My family have always been open about wealth, wills etc. Chatting over the dinner table. My husband finds it really bizarre and uncomfortable. They talk about how and when to downsize so they can try and pass cash on within the 7 years gift thing or however long it is.

I have zero issues with talking about this. Oh and I tell DH what I want if I die etc. He doesn't like that either.

I find your post really unpleasant. They are not dead yet. Why do you need to discuss with your sister now? Why can't it wait till they're dead?

And reading your OP again

Is it fair of me to try to buy my sister out at the current market price knowing the upgrades will increase the value? She’ll know this too. The family skills will come from my partner and my son’s dad rather than my sister. She can always refuse of course and I’d make sure she takes advice.'

You want her to agree NOW to you buying her share out. And lock it in at current market value?

So they aren't dead
You assume they won't need to access the money in the house for care etc
You want to lock your sister into an agreement NOW about a house you don't own. Current market value.
Nope. You're trying to screw her. And you're being beyond grasping.

What a grim idea.

My brother talks about what he will do 'when he gets his inheritance'. It's just grim.

I'm not a person who is good at emotion or social norms. And even I think. Wtf.

None of the negative replies move you because it confirms what sort of person you are.
As a district nurse that was in and out of care homes for many years, I can tell you I would do anything to give my loved one the choice of where she spent her final years if not safe at home. That's the measure of a good person.
Some unsavoury undertones in your family.

Your DM may live another 5-10 years OP. All finances may change in that time frame. I honestly would hold fire.

The childhood home remaining in the family longer? DH family did this but it was a huge house with a few acres and when it was sold having been in the family for just over 100 years a lot of people fell out. It Did involve a lot of money.

How will you feel if your DS sells quickly or needs to relocate. There is nothing wrong with inheritance planning but this wouldn’t appeal to me as it involves the possibility of an emotional burden at some point.

Im sorry but even though your parents are ill they are not gone yet. This is not yours or your sister's home it's theirs. Blimey, is this what this country has come to? I find this whole thread distasteful. Ive lost both my parents and my in-laws, never would I have entertained a discussion like this while they were alive and still living in their own homes.

How do you feel about charging your mum rent when your dad passes?
Seems it's not quite as clear cut as you think. If is was loads of people would be doing it for the same reasons to avoid paying for care.
Hope she has good friends who advise her to get legal advice.
You are also assuming your dad hasn't got any debts!!

I don't even like my mum and would have been telling her ages ago what he's doing is wrong and possibly financial abuse of she has little access to money because it's deemed as all his.

Report the thread and ask mn to put this in the legal bit.