normality to be decided by so-called vaccine passports?

[firthy85]

ok. wasn't sure which boared this would be most appropriate but am i the only person to think if we weren't in a health crisis this whole thing would make for a good commedy?. so its suggested we may need vaccine certificates to do totally normal things such as meet up in a cafe, go to the pub etc. would love to see how they think that is workable especially for smaller hospitality venues. i can see how it would work for big events such as a music festival or football tournament. or even a city centre bar where there is always a door person. and i could even see the advantages if we were further in progress but we are not even further on with vaccinations are we?. we haven't even started vaccinating anyone under the age of 50 so if this does get made law its going to discriminate against nearly half of society who are still waiting either for a test for covid or under 50 year old who has not yet been offered a jab. what part of this makes sense to you? we are pushing forward with easing lockdowns with most in door facilities being open by mid may but are we really ready?

They won't bring it in until everyone has been offered.

Personally, I don't want to sit next to someone unvaccinated who I don't know.

They'll be an ap I assume.

It will go some way to push the unsure people into having the vaccine and the anti-vaxxers to hopefully re-visit their cause and possibly look a bit deeper into the reasons that they've been drawn into it.

If it helps to get people to have the vaccine, and realise that in many cases their reasons for not having it are either selfish or based on conspiracy theories, I'm all for it.

I'm 46 and will be getting the jab 3 days after my 47th birthday. Wales are now vaccinating those in their 40's.

If it helps to get people to have the vaccine

It almost certainly does not help people get the vaccine, coercion is not a good way to get people to agree with you.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/04/01/how-to-lose-friends-and-alienate-people-on-the-problems-of-vaccine-passports/

"Passports can be seen as confirming the perception that vaccination is a measure of compulsion imposed upon the community. And once people begin to regard vaccines as compulsory then the evidence suggests that this produces anger and reduces willingness to get vaccinated. [20]"

Complete with evidence from 2015 academic.oup.com/eurpub/article/26/3/378/2467110

Given the lack of evidence for vaccine passports being good for take up for vaccines, there must be another reason, it's about the chance to coerce and stigmatise minorities, and provide people an excuse to exclude and harass.

As a previous PP, I do not want to be sat next to someone who is not vaccinated, whether that be on the bus, at work or in a coffee shop.

They’ve said vaccine passports won’t be a thing until everyone is vaccinated. Vaccine passports are already a thing for holidays, many countries require proof of vaccinated before permitting entry. This is not new, just a wider application that will benefit everyone.

@Tippytaps This is not about a vaccine passport as requirement for entering a country, it is about the freedom to move around our own country. And vaccinations needed to enter to other countries have so far been for diseases with far higher death rates, like yellow fever, where mortality rate can be as high as 50%.

I share the view of the PP who said that coercing people will add to scepticism about vaccination. It surely won’t reassure the population.

Do they send you a letter saying when you've had both?

Irrespective of proposed vaccine passports?

think the idea is fine enough in principle but we are already pushing for everything to be opened up by 17 may and i can see a lot of anger if people start going out again find they are going about freely then suddenly 2 or 3 months down the line they get asked to show a vaccine certificate. as for all this not wanting to sit next to an unvaccinated person seriously? so your going to either ask everyone you meet if they have been vaccinated or just continue to live in a closed off bubble?. i cant wait to get back mixing again because i am a very social person who has actually dam missed it. plus although i appreciate it has been serious, we cant put our lives on constant hold whether that be working life or social life. last year was different for obvious reasons but this year is also different. we know much more about it much research has taken place to help us understand it

Why would you not want to sit next to someone who hasn't been vaccinated? If you have been, what would be the problem? A vaccine doesn't stop anyone from being a vector for transmission - someone who has had the vaccine could still pick the virus up on their fingers and then transfer it onto a table/chair/lightswitch.

[quote Flyonawalk]@Tippytaps This is not about a vaccine passport as requirement for entering a country, it is about the freedom to move around our own country. And vaccinations needed to enter to other countries have so far been for diseases with far higher death rates, like yellow fever, where mortality rate can be as high as 50%.

I share the view of the PP who said that coercing people will add to scepticism about vaccination. It surely won’t reassure the population.[/quote]
@flyonawk Thank you, I misunderstood. I’ve just read the thread about Boris wanting to open pubs without social distancing if they check vaccination status. I had no idea such a scheme was being suggested and think it’s a recipe for disaster.

@Tippytaps

As a previous PP, I do not want to be sat next to someone who is not vaccinated, whether that be on the bus, at work or in a coffee shop.

They’ve said vaccine passports won’t be a thing until everyone is vaccinated. Vaccine passports are already a thing for holidays, many countries require proof of vaccinated before permitting entry. This is not new, just a wider application that will benefit everyone.

Do you not believe in the vaccine you have had then? If you have been jabbed, what does it matter if you are surrounded with covid positive people? You won’t get sick? Yes there are places that require vaccines to visit but I don’t go there for that reason. I can’t very well not go around my own country though can I? I live here!! I was on the fence about this vaccine before and trying to make my mind up whether to have it or not. If this gets brought in, I feel like I am being forced and bullied, which to me is extremely worrying and I most certainly won’t take it. I am not alone.

jm angel that was my point above. your either going to ask every person you meet if they have been vaccinated or stay closed off from society for the rest of your life. that has to come a point where we say well its with us let's do what we can to just live with it like we have with the likes of the flu. it probably doesn't help if your an overly anxious person in general but we can't keep going through the same thing year in and year out. how is this going to help your dc's?

Also, all those in favour of these passports. Are you happy for your kids to be forced to have the vaccine in autumn when its ‘deemed safe’ because that’s what next. Every member of the family will have to show an app or papers that they have all been vaccinated.
What about the next jab or medical treatment the government deem essential? Who knows why that might be in 3/4/5 years time? If they have the infrastructure to check then anything is possible. Hasn’t the last year of madness taught you that? Things are possible that you wouldn’t imagine in your worst nightmares and we get there small step by small step.
A thin end of a terrifying wedge

@firthy85

think the idea is fine enough in principle but we are already pushing for everything to be opened up by 17 may and i can see a lot of anger if people start going out again find they are going about freely then suddenly 2 or 3 months down the line they get asked to show a vaccine certificate. as for all this not wanting to sit next to an unvaccinated person seriously? so your going to either ask everyone you meet if they have been vaccinated or just continue to live in a closed off bubble?. i cant wait to get back mixing again because i am a very social person who has actually dam missed it. plus although i appreciate it has been serious, we cant put our lives on constant hold whether that be working life or social life. last year was different for obvious reasons but this year is also different. we know much more about it much research has taken place to help us understand it

“As for not wanting to sit next to an unvaccinated person...” currently I sit next to no one, the risk to my health is too great.

I might, once I have been vaccinated, consider siting in a pub - with social distancing.

Once we know more about the impact of the vaccinations on mutations and transmission, then I might feel more comfortable sitting next to someone who has also been vaccinated. But I would want to see evidence based decisions, not economic based decisions (eat out to help to help out!).

“Do you not believe in the vaccine...?”

I believe the vaccination is not 100% protection - even when used according to the trials (Pfizer was not tested at 12 week windows) - so I won’t risk being around anyone who might not be protected by a vaccination. Using the Swiss Cheese model, being around others who are also vaccinated will further reduce the risk to my health.

Things are possible that you wouldn’t imagine in your worst nightmares

No drama here then. I take it you won’t be having the vaccine then? I’m happy for my child to be vaccinated... it doesn’t imply consent to anything other than this vaccine. I will make decisions about future events as they occur and as the evidence becomes known.

i think its the better of a bad situation and i am more than happy to be vaccinated and more than happy to show a certificate but only when 99% of people have been vaccinated and considering that it's slowed up a lot for this month i fear we won't meet the road map out in it's entirety. sorry if some of you don't agree but economical decisions do matter not just health ones. unless you fancy living in a third world style country. for every day you can't reopen your business is another day of financially drowning. every cinema owner has to pay some sort of rent. every nightclub owner has to pay rent. all this on property that they can't make profit out of. you think councils take pitty on them? of course not. so sorry health and econemy walk hand in hand whether we like it or not.

Surely businesses and venues would be keen to have vaccine passports. It means they can open and have customers and clients buying stuff.

Surely businesses and venues would be keen to have vaccine passports. It means they can open and have customers and clients buying stuff

But only to some people, we're barely 50% through first dose vaccine, so being open to half the population is not going to make their business viable, especially as it means groups of people won't actually be able to all meet so it's more likely the whole group would meet at home.

Nightclubs particularly are a long way from having even a simple majority of their normal customers offered a vaccine.

I think they'll like it more because it means everyone will have to provide full ID to get in, and it'll be easy to exclude anyone with an Irish name (like Pontins wanted to) or anyone black, or anyone they don't like the look of under the pretence of hassling about the vaccine passport - whilst of course letting others simply come in.

daisypond, for big venues where people are checked in and out by a door person yes it would be easy but what local small pub either in a village or small estate is going to police it? hi jim you got your certificate? ah ok go through the bar. ah sorry barry you don't have a certificate i can't let you in even though i know you. when all get reopened they are going to be opperating at greater losses as it is.