Are we asking too much of schools?

[Radio4Rocks]

When my grandfather was a teacher at the turn of the 20th C the job was to teach children to read, write and add up. A little music and a foreign language thrown in was a bonus.

The list of things schools are expected to do has expanded considerably.

Many subjects in enough detail to pass exams.

Plus all these extras -
Road Safety
Cycling proficiency
Basic cooking
Nutrition
Swimming
Water safety
Comparative religion
Safeguarding
Staying safe online
Anti bullying
Managing money
Birth control

There are lots more but these are just off the top of my head.

It used to be that parents sent their children (non SEN) ready for school.

Toilet trained
Able to dress and undress themselves for PE
Able to fasten shoes and clothing
Use a knife and fork
Sit still and listen
Have basic manners
Be able to use basic tools, like pencils
Know their letter sounds
Count to 10.

Now some parents expect the school to do that last list.

Is it right or should teachers be able to go back to basics instead of trying to wear so many hats?

We have learnt that children are much more than just vessels for filling with numbers and words. If we want well rounded young people then we need to make sure their education covers a wide range of topics

You forgot all the pastoral stuff.

I think teachers should concentrate on teaching, and the other stuff should be picked up by specialists within a school. Teacher has become impossible with so many different hats to wear.

I’ve been teaching 25 years...

Children need skills for life as well as the 3 Rs. The things you have listed are pretty important. Ideally it should be a partnership between parents and schools to support children in acquiring all these things.

For those children whose families are unable or unwilling to do these things then school is the safety net.

Hopefully today's schools equip and nuture children better than they did in your grandfather's time. I certainly hope they do.

What did people in his classes go on to do? My grandad worked down the mines as soon as he left school because that's what the rest of his family did. Now it's great that there is more variety and children have access to more of a variety of subjects. The issue is in part that they haven't received the additional funding/resource as the demands and expectations placed upon them have risen.

Don’t forget though, that in your grandfather’s time it was expected that one teacher would cover everything where now there are many teachers for each year (in secondary schools, at least). There should be other staff to deal with many of the things children need to gain experience and understanding from.

Decent parents should do everything possible to make sure their child is capable of everything on your list for them to do. However, not all children have decent parents. Thankfully we live in times when parents not bothering to parent doesn’t necessarily mean a child won’t learn and won’t get anywhere in life.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow has hit the nail on the head. There is so much more to the job, even than the list in the original post.

As services are stretched outside education, schools have picked up more and more additional 'responsibilities'. On a day to day basis, I spend as much time on the pastoral side of things than actually teaching the curriculum, which is in itself stretched to the maximum.

That's not even taking into account the support we provide for parents too- we're a food bank, admissions and transport, mental health services, support with applications and free school meals and other benefit claims, because the places that used to provide that help to parents have gone, or the waiting list is two years long.

I wish that I could just do my job, but year on year, what seems to be considered 'my job' expands.

I know 2 teachers working abroad. They just teach.

All the welfare, pastoral etc is done by other people.

It seems to be that schools are increasingly responsible for everything in society and the actual education part is almost forgotten.

We were talking to MIL the other day about the census and the question about qualifications. She left school without any qualifications as did all her peers, it was only the grammar school children that got to do exams.

School for her was really filling time once she knew the basics before leaving and getting a job to earn money which would have contributed to the household until she got married and left home.

I don’t mind the teaching them to swim and cycling proficiency stuff. I do mind that schools are increasingly being burdened with picking up all the stuff that should be dealt with outside agencies but are no longer due to massive budget cuts. Mental health and social services in particular.

@Sansaplans What did people in his classes go on to do?

That is a good point. Turn of the 20th Century would be my great grandparents so after leaving school (at 14 with no qualifications) they became farm labourers, domestic servants, iron turners, mill workers, housewives birthing multiple children.

I've been teaching for over 20 years.

It feels like I'm spending a smaller proportion of my time and energy actually teaching (the think I enjoy and am good at), and more on everything else.

This includes behaviour management, teaching parenting skills, teaching children to go to the toilet; to dress themselves and other basic skills, etc

It's no coincidence that I'm leaving the profession I'm July!

The school provide or facilitate swimming lessons for a few terms in year 3 and 4 at DC school but I would imagine that few people send kids expecting this to be their first (or only) swimming lessons.
Cycling proficiency is optional and outsourced.
I did cookery at school but it in no way prepared me for actual real life cooking meals at home.
I would actually rather the maths curriculum (at high school level) covered stuff like budgeting, interest rates, how credit cards, loans or mortgages worked, which would actually be way more useful in real life than quadratic equations, and trigonometry.
But I agree that teachers responsibilities seem to encompass a far wider remit than simply teaching their subject. (Without extra recompense or recognition)

I retired from teaching 10 years ago and had become increasingly worried about what was expected of me when I wasn't sure I felt confident in dealing with it. All the things I mentioned and those mentioned by others are very important but I'm not sure that it should be teachers doing them.

I trained to teach because I wanted to teach. I did not want to be a social worker, child protection officer, nutrition expert etc etc. I was a bloody good teacher when left to do the job.

@Radio4Rocks

Absolutely. I'm a teacher not a social worker, citizens advice worker, benefits adviser, etc etc...

Agree, when I was doing my teacher training, they were putting plans in place for schools to supervise tooth brushing. Luckily this never came to fruition, imagine supervising 30 4 year olds to brush their teeth, imagine the mess! It seems that more and more responsibility it taken away from certain parents and put onto schools, health, the police etc.

And what about the children with SEN?
There's huge, often unrealistic, expectations on teachers and children.
I think the system needs to break for some perspective and balance.

Agree, my friend has been teaching for twenty years, my sister too. I’m regularly shocked by what they tell me.

Number of NT children starting school, who aren’t toilet trained, or have most of the basic skills you listed. They are spending time doing this instead of teaching as well as now dealing with parents who expect to be treated like customers. Parents used to, in the main, take instructions from and respect teachers.

So, teaching time has lessened but the curriculum and the range and scope of what needs to be taught has only expanded. Both are ground down and want early retirement.

I agree. I have seen countless posts on here over the years with some parents thinking teachers should be doing tooth brushing, checking hair for nits, heart start, several languages, playing an instrument to a degree of proficiency, individual reading daily plus countless other things.

"We" are not. The government is. They expect schools to pick up the slack for all the stretched and underfunded services ,including the lack of specialised SEN schools with no extra funding or support.

It's not necessarily a bad thing that schools are responsible for more than education, the issue is that it shouldn't be the teachers wearing all the hats, and only getting abuse and blame when/if things go wrong. They're being used as plasters over huge, bleeding, life threatening gaps the Government wonders why it doesn't work.

You try fixing a broken ,hanging at the knee leg with a plaster , in the woods, while being chased by a bear mate!

Yes a lot of things are parental responsibility and yet it seems a lot of parents aren't bothered about leaving their kids it.

Some of it stems from adults in society not showing certain skills or traits (because their parents never taught them) and it being considered unacceptable but the only thing the government falls back on is "include it in schools"...

I agree. Schools/teachers are ridiculously put upon and blamed for so many problems that are often caused by poverty, or simply by bad parenting.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

You forgot all the pastoral stuff.

I think teachers should concentrate on teaching, and the other stuff should be picked up by specialists within a school. Teacher has become impossible with so many different hats to wear.

I’ve been teaching 25 years...

As the teacher your in the class all day with the children, you see things that nobody else in the school would see. You know if there is a change in a particular child like no one like would notice.

Maybe if you can’t change with the times and understand that teachers have a big part to play in safeguarding children then you need a career change.

And yes teachers are expected to fill in the gaps where other professionals should be involved; social workers, psychologists, speech therapists, behavioral therapists, OTs, nutritionists, sexual health educationalists, the list goes on and on....

I dont think we can teach out the disadvantage. We should be tackling the impact of poverty in more places and ways than in school, but schools do have a bigger role than subject tuition.

Some of those things are reasonable, for example would expect schools to have a good eye for safeguarding because as a universal service they see children that in times gone by would never come to the attention of social service. Children fell through the net because teachers didn’t know to look for signs of neglect etc.

I did both swimming and cycle proficiency at school 30+ years ago so those aren’t new, nor are things like cooking, nutrition and comparative religion all of which were done when I was at school.

Where I am children don’t start school until they are 5, so in terms of maturity being able to dress, use a knife and fork etc are usually more established as is toiletting. The problems arise when children that are barely 4 end up in a school setting, at that age it doesn’t take much for self care to be delayed for all kinds of reasons and if kids need to be in school, schools need to accommodate those who haven’t quite achieved those skills.

I do agree that teachers are expected to cover areas best left to more specialist services, mental health services come to mind. I also think the curriculum is far too target focussed, teaching to whatever test comes next rather than education for a love of learning which just creates pressure all round.

The thing is, no one wants to pay for adequate public services (including schools, much less decent social work provision and mental health support). Unless and until there’s a change of mindset in government and in the general public I don’t see things changing.