Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Major General Fraud

51 replies

C0rdelia · 27/03/2021 21:53

Any Army (or ex) wives got any thoughts on this? I was an Army brat and wife. Can’t believe he thought he’d get away with pleading not guilty.

OP posts:
Original poster
C0rdelia · 27/03/2021 22:06

I do have a bit of sympathy. Big house, big salary, batman, driver and now heading for a prison cell. All they had to do was live in a house in Putney.

OP posts:
ErleighBird · 27/03/2021 22:08

I know nothing about the army but have followed the story. Is this sort of thing common? They obviously thought they could get away with it despite being fairly blatant.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 27/03/2021 22:10

They were idiots. The rules are clear.
I don't get why they took such a stupid risk. I would have sympathy with lower paid soldiers doing it. But not senior officers.

Blackjackontherocks · 27/03/2021 22:14

I didn’t really understand the case! Was it fraudulent because the wife lived down the road from the boarding school and bunged the kids in as boarders anyway (and claimed the attendant increased fees)? When the kids should have been day pupils which I guess is cheaper?

I ask because I know if two army families who live in the same city as their kids’ schools and the kids board; It never occurred to me it was a problem and I’m sure they get their fees paid from conversations I’ve had. In both cases the kids have asked to board because they felt they were missing out only going in the day. I guess these families are paying the boarding fees themselves as a top up?

FourWordsImMuNiTy · 27/03/2021 22:15

It’s a serious fraud and there’s no excuse, but I do think it’s a classic example of a case for which we surely should be able to find a better punishment than prison. Nobody’s going to be sleeping safer in their beds knowing that he’s been locked up are they?

PuzzleMonkeyMum · 27/03/2021 22:17

From what I’ve read he thought it’d be fine. He said who would question his word and people do it all the time but maybe his rank has just made it a total no no and his cockiness? Plus to plead not guilty, seems to me like he thought he was too important? How embarrassing though

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 27/03/2021 22:18

@Blackjackontherocks you only qualify for CEA if you and your partner live in Military accommodation the majority of the time, for postings of 3? Years or less. His wife wasn't living with him, she was living in their own home elsewhere.

dishydishemup · 27/03/2021 22:24

It bet it's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't doubt there are many others on the same ruse. I think he was only caught because the wife was in a cottage next door to a Colonel who knew what the rules were and that they were being broken.

DianaT1969 · 27/03/2021 22:28

I too would rather see criminals who attack, steal or put others in danger in prison instead of this man. I would have thought community service, paying the money back, dishonourable discharge and loss of his service benefits would have been enough punishment and humiliation.

On TV today - one of those fly-on-wall UK police programmes. A dangerous driver was stopped. Tested for drugs and found to be on coke. Confessed to weed too. No licence and no insurance.
He was fined £900 and given a 3 year driving ban (which he'd ignored the last time). Free to carry on putting others at risk.

Original poster
C0rdelia · 27/03/2021 22:29

FourWords, I agree with you but Army Officers at that level can’t be seen to get off with a slapped wrist. £50,000 fraud from the tax payers.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 27/03/2021 22:30

Ex Army here. The couple richly deserve all the ignominy heaped on them. The emails and messages were priceless: daunted by Nick's rank indeed. Not so much it seems.... No reason at all on his salary why the kids couldn't live at home in Dorset and downgrade to being day pupils. schools were minutes away. Who boards their kids seven miles from home anyway? So lazy. Plain greedy. No excuse.

Blackjackontherocks · 27/03/2021 22:32

[quote Aroundtheworldin80moves]@Blackjackontherocks you only qualify for CEA if you and your partner live in Military accommodation the majority of the time, for postings of 3? Years or less. His wife wasn't living with him, she was living in their own home elsewhere.[/quote]
Ah right, gotcha

goodbyestranger · 27/03/2021 22:33

dishydishemup the Colonel who dobbed them in was the neighbour on the same military housing patch in Putney. The wife lived in Dorset.

mpsw · 27/03/2021 23:02

There are rules.

You break them at your peril.

The allowance is there for continuity of education (so if you do get posted close to the school, there are tolerances to avoid disruption, ditto safeguards to mean you don't have to pull DC out just before eg GCSEs). And there's a whole office that will help you do your claims right and assist with forward planning. It's not a way of getting the taxpayer to cover private school fees for any other reason.

It was right that he faced the consequences - irrespective of his rank.

It's a hell of a price to pay for a couple of terms fees. But the T&Cs are clear.

LadyWithLapdog · 27/03/2021 23:29

Harsh sentence. Hopefully a deterrent for others. I do feel for the kids and the couple having to make so many moves.

thewinkingprawn · 28/03/2021 08:16

It is absolutely ridiculous that he has been out in prison further wasting taxpayers money. Paying it back and then some, pension removed, awful publicity, community service and removed from current role etc is more than enough - the ridiculously low to zero custodial sentences others get for worse crimes just does not stack up for me.

TrickyD · 28/03/2021 08:30

@C0rdelia

I do have a bit of sympathy. Big house, big salary, batman, driver and now heading for a prison cell. All they had to do was live in a house in Putney.
Does every officer get a batman and a driver? What does a batman actually do?
goodbyestranger · 28/03/2021 08:45

In terms of fraud and sentence, the sum conned out of public money was large. Compare it to benefit fraud/ sentences.

He'll be in an open prison so fairly cushy. The fall from being a big dog will be the hardest, both for him and his evidently rank conscious wife.

goodbyestranger · 28/03/2021 08:47

The amount of money he nicked could have made a massive difference to the condition of plenty of the poor condition houses that far too many soldiers are expected to live in.

goodbyestranger · 28/03/2021 08:56

I do feel for the kids and the couple having to make so many moves.

This is a very well off couple with an £800k base in Dorset. That type of officer couple has nothing like the hardship of soldiers who can't possibly afford a home other than the one they rent from the army. Which is why this dishonesty is so revolting.

mpsw · 28/03/2021 09:09

He has been ordered to pay it back, but his pension is only potentially forfeit from the time of the offence.

What you earn honestly, before your offence, isn't stripped from you - same as any other occupation.

Fraud of that amount often attracts a custodial sentence, and I don't think he should have special treatment that avoids a typical sentence

He cannot use his rank honorifically after retirement as senior officer frequently do, and both that and the criminal record may have an impact on what sorts of roles he can take on once released.

FourWordsImMuNiTy · 28/03/2021 09:17

I don’t think he should be given a more lenient sentence than other fraudsters - I think that we should be able to give a sentence other than prison for all non-violent offenders without it being seen as just a slap on the wrist. This “only prison counts as real punishment” approach leads to people who are no threat to the public being imprisoned and I don’t think it’s right. There should be another way.

Tommika · 28/03/2021 09:38

@TrickyDDoes every officer get a batman and a driver? What does a batman actually do?

No.

A Batman dates back to servants (and originally all officers would have a Batman. It is an assistant and is only available to very senior officers or those with high levels of ceremonial duties
A driver will only be allocated if there is an absolute need for the permanent role. An officer travelling would be expected to drive themselves, but a senior officer may spend their time better by working on the way and get a driver - from the transport pool unless they are very senior and the amount of travel is enough.

I haven’t followed the case in detail. The Batman and driver could be the same person. An assistant that drives.

I do feel for the kids and the couple having to make so many moves.
The issue that meant they weren’t entitled is because the family were not making ‘so many moves’. The wife was living elsewhere, the children therefore had a ‘stable’ home that wasn’t subject to moves created by army postings

mpsw · 28/03/2021 09:38

Does every officer get a batman and a driver? What does a batman actually do?

No, not these days

A batman is a junior soldier who looks after kit, sees to accommodation and once upon a time acts as driver for a senior officer. A bit like a military valet?

You sometimes see this role during operations, usually as an add-on to someone's main purpose. Drivers are a separate role nowadays, as they get advanced and defensive driving courses, and if the officer gets close protection, that team takes over.

It's an interesting role - it doesn't change the junior's place in the hierarchy (that's set already) but it does give them access to very senior officers and a different insight into what is going on (dependent of who and where of course)

skeggycaggy · 28/03/2021 09:46

Is the CEA available for all soldiers or only at certain rankings?