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Original poster

Seasoned managers - some advice please

33 replies

Sessional · 27/03/2021 18:46

I’ve been line managing for 5 plus years but I’ve never had an issue like this before.

Recently moved to a new team, directly line managing 8 people, responsible for a team of around 30. They’ve had a succession of managers over the last 18 months, I’m number 4.

I was told about a difficult member of staff “Kate”before I started, she’s logged two previous bullying complaints, very difficult to give feedback to, won’t take direction or any change to the way she does things.

I’ve been in post 2 weeks and she has been fine with me. We had one run in after the first day when she gave me an obviously prepared speech about how she has worked there for years, knows the place in and out and doesn’t need any direction or coaching. This was met by me with a bland response and that I would be just observing for the first few weeks and would be having 1-1s with everyone next week but thank you for the feedback.

Friday afternoon I was approached by another member of staff who asked me if they could have a word. This member of staff is one of the top performers, has been very helpful to me, unblemished record and a real team player. She told me that she is very uncomfortable with Kate and wanted to let me know about some behaviour. Apparently whenever my back is turned in the office Kate is mimicking me and making hand gestures. When I leave the office she is taking the piss out of me (to the point of actually impersonating me and anything I’ve said), whenever I send a team email she reads it out and complains about everything and tries to get everyone else involved in the complaining. This doesn’t seem to be working. Apparently she is has named me a specific name think along the lines of an insult and will only refer to me by this name.

Good member of staff does not want to go on record about this or make a statement. They are all pretty cowed by Kate and worried about repercussions.

What would you do in this situation.

OP posts:

IrenetheQuaint · 27/03/2021 18:53

How childish! I think I would do absolutely nothing at this point, just make sure I am being a great manager and developing strong relationships with the rest of the team. I would also make sure I had a decent relationship with HR, in case problems arise in the future (which they probably will). If Kate has no allies then her silly tricks will fall very flat.

LordOfTheOnionRings · 27/03/2021 18:55

Anything you can manage Kate out with?

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 27/03/2021 18:59

Theres not much you can do unless people are willing to go 'on the record'. Until then id ignore, ignore, ignore and cultivate a great, professional relationship with the rest of the team. Id be logging any 'behaviour' in case HR need to be involved. Id also be looking to manage her out somehow.

If it starts to effect team performance then you'd need to take a different tact.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Employment advice

Kezzie200 · 27/03/2021 19:00

Do you have a HR department?

Kate is toxic and you, innocently, are in the equation too as you are her target and the employee is scared to report.

It seems one to be unravelled with the help of others.

Kezzie200 · 27/03/2021 19:01

Interesting the views of others with more experience than me!

Original poster

Sessional · 27/03/2021 19:03

Yes we have a HR department and I’m about to make a decision I know is going to make her very unhappy, she may choose to leave of her own accord which is something she threatened the last time this was floated as an idea or she’ll ramp up her behaviour. I’m hoping it’s the former.

She strikes me as one of those people who threaten to quit every time something happens they don’t like but never actually does

OP posts:

dishydishemup · 27/03/2021 19:05

Rise above it. Celebrate the good behaviour and performance of the team.

Does your HR team have anything on high performance 'behaviours' . You could do a team workshop on this. If not, there may be something online. Great behaviour leads to high performance teams.

MilkshakeandChips5 · 27/03/2021 19:06

100% agree with @IrenetheQuaint - don't give her the attention. The best advice I was given early on was to raise the bar of the team. Do this by building a great relationships with those that are performing. Be polite, be fair but don't become embroiled in drama - as a LM you should stay away from this. It's still early days so rise above it for now and play the long game.

Kinder123 · 27/03/2021 19:12

Definitely log the report of this poor conduct in some way, e.g. in a message to your boss. It's difficult if someone won't go on the record, but these things often tumble out in a grievance or disciplinary so Kate won't have done herself any favours.

Always follow the company policy when managing Kate's conduct or performance. Never be afraid to manage her. Keep your cool. You'll get there. I inherited a 'Kate', picked her up on a few things which were completely reasonable and justified. Everyone before me had been too scared to do that. She made the decision to leave maybe six months after me taking over line management. She wasn't nice to the others on the team and from what I gather they were all delighted.

PegasusReturns · 27/03/2021 19:13

Don’t give her attention but also make it clear to HR that she has to go. Get your manager on board. Depending on what sort of organisation you work at you’ll need to start managing her out or your can give her a settlement.

Life’s too short to put up with that shit.

Saltyslug · 27/03/2021 19:15

Set some supervisions with all the staff but do her first. Tell her what you’ve been impressed with so far. Ask if she can help you with a specific thing so she feels valued. Ask her what areas she feels she needs to develop. Add these as targets. Tell her you believe in supportive work environments where everyone feels valued from cleaner to office worker to leader. Ask for her thoughts on how to develop a supportive positive environment after a lot of leadership change. Then leave it there and check in with the top performer in a few weeks to see if things have improved.

rwalker · 27/03/2021 19:16

Not really a lot you can do if no official record of this .
Do if you have any team meetings run a quick bullying and diversity session outlining whats acceptable and what isn't using theses as examples .
Just a discrete way of letting her know you know what she's up to .

As a rule people like this will shout bullying and harassment when they are challenged moving on to saying they have stress and anxiety that amazing clears up soon as they get there own way .

ProfYaffle · 27/03/2021 19:17

My advice would be;
Get the support of your line manager and HR
Don't negotiate with her or try to persuade her to come round to your point of view
State what you need/expect from her in line with your team plan
Be clear about possible consequences
Don't get dragged into prolonged circular conversations. Draw them to a close when you recognise them happening
If she doesn't do what's required explore conduct action with HR
Don't take it personally - it's her issue not yours
Don't be afraid of a grievance or bullying complaint. A formal investigation will only shine a light on her behaviour.
If all else fails explore a 'some other substantial reason' dismissal with HR

Saltyslug · 27/03/2021 19:17

A risky best concentrate on team building and not worry too much at this point

blackhorses · 27/03/2021 19:18

I’ve been managing for a long time and i would tackle this head on otherwise it’s going to affect the rest of the team.

I would wait until the planned one-to-one and I would ensure I had a feedback session in everyone’s meeting in the spirit of fairness.

In hers I would say something like “I am pleased with x y and z which I think you dealt with really well. I think one area you could work on is your professionalism.
I think from a few things I’ve overheard you probably aren’t aware but usually at work if we have a problem with an email we have been sent or some tension with our line manager the professional thing to do is to make a meeting with that person to discuss it.”

And I would let her say whatever she wanted to and then I would finish with “well I’m glad that’s sorted. So next time you have an issue to raise you will come to me.”

That will either nip it in the bud, or it’ll blow up and you’ll have plenty of evidence to take it further.

RubyFakeLips · 27/03/2021 19:27

Definitely log this 'unofficially' with HR and your LM. Get HR onside now and consider what can be done to prevent previous behaviour recurring.

Rise above it and prove yourself to the team, they will be familiar with Kate's behaviour and will judge you on good performance not her early criticisms.

Cover your arse when dealing with Kate, make sure your discussions are backed up on email. Consider yourself at risk of being accused of bullying by her and act accordingly. Follow company policy to the letter and don't be afraid to involve HR. At the same time try to cultivate a positive relationship with her. As already advised, encourage her, make her feel valued.

Margaritatime · 27/03/2021 19:33

I agree ignore her behaviour unless you witness it.

Make sure you are fully aware of performance management procedures. Follow them consistently for all staff, including Kate e.g setting objectives, regular 1:2:1s, balanced feedback, training where appropriate.

In 1:2:1s with Kate get her to set her own objectives, with guidance from you and get her to email or sign (depends on system) to agree them. Each 1:2:1 ask her to provide an update against her objectives, and also to assess her performance. Push back where necessary and write up each meeting. By making her responsible for setting objectives and regularly assessing her own performance it is harder for her to dispute your assessments. This also gives you a good defence when she raises a grievance - you can almost guarantee she will do this.

This will be hard and draining for you in the short term but will either see her improve her performance or realise she needs to move on.

Good luck

katmarie · 27/03/2021 19:33

My advice would be to document everything, with dates, so that if it blows up you can prove that you have been measured and professional. Read through your company's policies on discipline, behaviour, bullying etc and know them well. In all of the one to one sessions I would be making two things very clear. Firstly that bullying, nastiness, toxic behaviour etc will not be accepted behaviour, and will be treated in line with company policies. Secondly that anyone can come to you at any time with any concerns they have about the behaviour of any member of the team, or anything work related that is upsetting, and that they won't experience any detriment if they do. And then follow the disciplinary processes to the letter. That's the only way that anything is going to stick with someone like this.

MaggieFS · 27/03/2021 19:34

I wouldn't take this head on until you have something more concrete than one other person's say so, and someone who won't go on record. I would log it with your manager and HR.

I would focus on team building, morale and target setting. Do not give her extra attention nor modify your behaviour.

I would be all over her work plan and targets. I would absolutely be holding her to account, but no more than anyone else.

If you need to manage her out, it will be more painless if you have clear data evidence of performance gaps.

areyoumeop · 27/03/2021 19:42

Hi boss, you on here too

See you Monday

Kate

areyoumeop · 27/03/2021 19:45

Had loads of Kates' in my life, depending on policies and procedures they can be a right PITA to get rid off. Always be the better , more professional person while bigging -up your better performing staff.

TitsOot4Xmas · 27/03/2021 19:51

@blackhorses

I’ve been managing for a long time and i would tackle this head on otherwise it’s going to affect the rest of the team.

I would wait until the planned one-to-one and I would ensure I had a feedback session in everyone’s meeting in the spirit of fairness.

And I would let her say whatever she wanted to and then I would finish with “well I’m glad that’s sorted. So next time you have an issue to raise you will come to me.”

That will either nip it in the bud, or it’ll blow up and you’ll have plenty of evidence to take it further.

As an experienced manager and senior HR professional I totally agree with this. Nip it in the bud because it won’t get better if you don’t.

Crimeismymiddlename · 27/03/2021 20:03

The only positive thing I have learned about ‘Kate’s’ is that they are always at best mediocre employees, and the bad behaviour you see at the start is the tip of iceberg. So are easy to manage out. First you will have to contend with the bullying accusations, then the weaponising of mental health problems-personally I don’t think being an unpleasant person is a mental health problem but the Kate’s of the world disagree. After each warning/disciplinary a period of good behaviour will follow. Then the next problem until you can finally say goodbye to her. She will never leave on her own-why would she as for a long time no one has done anything about her. The worst thing about Kate’s, there will have been ample opportunity to get rid of her, the previous managers just could not be bothered.

underneaththeash · 27/03/2021 20:10

Either let HR deal with it, ot put her in your office on a performance review.

TitsOot4Xmas · 27/03/2021 20:13

@underneaththeash

Either let HR deal with it, ot put her in your office on a performance review.

Why is there this belief that HR are there to do the job the manager gets paid for?

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