What do Americans do if they have no healthcare?

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Seeing posts on Reddit about the costs of routine medical visits and the astronomical breakdown of figures charged, but I'm assuming these are all covered by health insurance.

But what if you have no insurance. What happens if you get cancer etc. Are you left to die?

How is the fire service funded in the US? Do you get a bill if they rescue you from a burning house?!

Why do Americans think this system works?

If you are rich enough to afford good insurance, usually provided through your employer or company, it works brilliantly. World class treatment, no queues.

If you are then asked to contribute to provide the same of others less fortunate than yourself, some many people think" I work hard for my health insurance, why should I also pay for those others, who don't work as hard as me, to have the same benefit. "

And so it goes, people thinking that others less fortunate, who have had fewer opportunities are actually just work shy.

Not so different to thinking that we should not welcome refugees, who just happened to be born else where

Although the US has very poor maternity outcomes, worse maternal death figures than almost all of Europe and some developing countries:
www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=2223.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4546.full

It’s a long thread so may already have been said. I can’t understand the Americans view of the NHS - and that it is perfectly possible to have the NHS as well as private options.

@FinallyHere

Why do Americans think this system works?

If you are rich enough to afford good insurance, usually provided through your employer or company, it works brilliantly. World class treatment, no queues.

If you are then asked to contribute to provide the same of others less fortunate than yourself, some many people think" I work hard for my health insurance, why should I also pay for those others, who don't work as hard as me, to have the same benefit. "

And so it goes, people thinking that others less fortunate, who have had fewer opportunities are actually just work shy.

Not so different to thinking that we should not welcome refugees, who just happened to be born else where

I grew up as a child of a factory floor labourer. We definitely were not rich (working class in the UK sense) but had good insurance through my DF blue-collar job. It would have been common for blue-collar workers to have good perks like this even on low pay.

Pink-collar jobs would have been the ones stingy on healthcare packages, for reasons you can guess.

@UsedUpUsername It isnt just about cost cutting though. As I said, you can take two countries with the same sort of health system (e.g. the Netherlands and France it is hard to find a comparable system for the UK or US as both are unique for different reasons). Those 2 countries have wildly different rates of C-section - and it isnt because of the cost of C-sections. When it comes to pain relief medication this is the same. And you can have a debate about whether this is good or not. As someone who has given birth I am all for women having all the pain relief they want in labour (whether that is an epidural, gas and air, pethidine or nothing or everything). However, in other circumstances it is much much easier to get strong pain relief medication n the US than in the Netherlands (the UK is somewhere in between). On the one hand this is good -I consider myself responsible enough to judge how much pain relief I need. On the other hand, the shocking levels of prescription opioid addiction in the US is not so good...

@user1471439310

I live in the US and only online have I heard these stories about how bad our healthcare is. When people in Britain waited for cancer treatments I saw both my surgeon and oncologist. I saw my regular physician with no problem. My son has no insurance but is under our medical assistance program. He got his vaccine by just showing his card. Hospitals have help for people. I'm not sure if we are lucky or people are exaggerating.

Uk cancer targets mean you are seen within 2 weeks of your GP reffering you

“I'm assuming these are all covered by health insurance”

Nope, the insurance will cover certain percentage depending on your insurance plans

If your Medical bill is $5000 , more likely they will pay $4000 and you pay $1000 out of your pocket.

And you still have to pay high price for your insurance despite they don’t cover 100% unless you top high earner and your employer will be happy to provide you insurance for feee

My Father spent 2 weeks in hopsital in Florida after suffering a cardiac arrest on a cruise. Thank God my mother had travel insurance with Lloyds bank via her account as they covered EVERYTHING and my father was 72. The nurses told us that it was 25k per day just for the bed plus each scan he had was 5k (and he had at least 1 a day). We never saw the bill it was just paid for by insurance but what with that 2 week stay and then the private air ambulance home with three doctors and pilot it must have been at least 500k. Never travel without insurance!!

My sister has a terminal illness out in the states. God alone knows how much her monthly drugs cost and she had to retire because she has lost her sight (among other things).

I know a guy who required multiple major surgeries following an assault around 10 years ago, he's lucky to be alive. He was somewhat well known within his field at the time and a fundraiser collected something like $80,000 towards his care in the weeks following, but it's unlikely he'll ever pay those medical bills off in full. To add insult to injury the guy (who everybody knows was responsible, there really is no doubt to anyone who knows the incident) who put him in that situation somehow managed to get a not guilty verdict and walk free!

@queenofthenorthwest

We are so lucky to have what we have. Not perfect but available to everyone

But the alternative to the NHS isn't the USA system. There are lots of different systems in place in most other developed countries which fall between the two extremes of the UK and USA.

@loopylou3030

My Father spent 2 weeks in hopsital in Florida after suffering a cardiac arrest on a cruise. Thank God my mother had travel insurance with Lloyds bank via her account as they covered EVERYTHING and my father was 72. The nurses told us that it was 25k per day just for the bed plus each scan he had was 5k (and he had at least 1 a day). We never saw the bill it was just paid for by insurance but what with that 2 week stay and then the private air ambulance home with three doctors and pilot it must have been at least 500k. Never travel without insurance!!

I know someone who broke their arm badly on holiday i the US and, after the immediate emergency care, the insurance company preferred to pay for for her flight back to Europe and then all her treatment there, rather than for her to stay in the US and be treated. Which was great for her because she got to go home early and be with family etc, but also shows how much more expensive the same treatment is in the US.

This thread reminds me of me and my friend karting his american girlfriend, who was in the UK, off to A&E after she sliced her hand open on some broken glass. She was screaming and crying that she didn't want to go whilst bleeding all over the floor, not because of the injury, but that she wouldn't be able to afford the bill. She couldn't comprehend that we could just turn up and get her fixed up.

@UsedUpUsername
Gas and air is brilliant....had it with all 3 of mine and didn’t need anything else.....epidurals come with a risk

Uk cancer targets mean you are seen within 2 weeks of your GP reffering you

"seen", yes, normally, but that first consultation only starts the ball rolling. If you need scans, x-rays, etc., you're back in the queue. My OH was "seen" within the magic 2 weeks, but it was basically a 5 minute appointment, no examination, etc., just basically "we'll call you in for an MRI scan and skeletel x-ray". It was about 3/4 months before they were done and the results reviewed by the oncologist and treatment started about month 6 (back in the queue to be scheduled in for chemotherapy etc).

My father had similar delays - it was nearly 9 months before he got his operation for his pancreatic cancer - just one delay and waiting list queue after another.

That's the trouble with those "targets" - doctors just do enough to "tick the box".

@PaterPower do you have a link to the documentary please.

Have you ever watched Dr Pimple Popper? Americans with massive cysts, lumps and bumps that they have lived with for years and years. Every single time I watch it I think, if they lived here, theyd just go to thier GP, get referred and get it sorted.

@Iwillgotothegym

NHS not BHS!

Just as well we don't rely on BHS for our healthcare or we'd be truly fucked!

@BearSoFair

I know a guy who required multiple major surgeries following an assault around 10 years ago, he's lucky to be alive. He was somewhat well known within his field at the time and a fundraiser collected something like $80,000 towards his care in the weeks following, but it's unlikely he'll ever pay those medical bills off in full. To add insult to injury the guy (who everybody knows was responsible, there really is no doubt to anyone who knows the incident) who put him in that situation somehow managed to get a not guilty verdict and walk free!

Feel like I should explain the 'well known in his field' comment because that might imply he was a high earner...he was a musician in a band with a small but growing audience, so not at all likely to be earning enough for good health insurance!

@CayrolBaaaskin

Also I don’t think anyone at all is suggesting moving the NHS to a US style system. No one at all. So let’s be realistic

Mr Hunt...

@BabyYoda

I believe standard protocol is to start cooking crystal meth...

I was just thinking that

Government healthcare can function nicely as a safety net, but why not encourage those who can to use private care? Would take a lot of pressure off the NHS ...

Not as much as you might think. There are very few consultants who don't do NHS work so being treated in a private hospital just means the consultant sees you on a Thursday not a Monday. Sometimes the treatment is in the same hospital and doctors can only do so many procedures in a day.

He got his vaccine by just showing his card. Hospitals have help for people. I'm not sure if we are lucky or people are exaggerating.

I got my covid vac by showing my arm.

I've treated a couple of Americans in my first career, they have been dumbfounded at things like me recording an ECG within mins of arrival at the hospital.

Strangely some of the things people in the UK 'go private' for Americans quite like eg being in a bay with 4 beds rather than a single room.

I used to contribute to a travel site and there would occasionally be Americans who'd been in London and used A and E who were wondering why they still had not received a bill 6 months after getting home.

I lived in the US in the eighties, had good health insurance through my then husband's union. Felt very unwell, went to the doctor and while I was there my insides exploded. Turned out to be a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Doctor's office organised ambulance, phoned ahead to hospital etc but when I got there, bleeding to death, I was shunted into a side corridor on a trolley while they checked my insurance.

Only when satisfied my insurance was valid did they start treatment and rush me off to surgery. But not before making me sign all sorts of forms to waive my right to sue them if I got AIDS from the blood transfusions. Just imagine, I'm on my own, in pain, haemorrhaging - I needed five pints of blood - and required to sign long complicated multi-page forms before they would treat me. Naturally I signed the forms!

When I came round I was in a two bed room with my bed curtains closed. I heard visitors arriving for the other bed, next thing my curtains were ripped back and a strange man asked me what I was in for! I pressed my emergency bell and a lovely Caribbean nurse came in and told him off. I was in bits, hadn't known I was pregnant before it got ripped away, and in pain, and worried about money and what my husband would say.

Whole thing was a nightmare, I was discharged after five days and given an itemised bill for my 5% co-pay. Every aspirin, wound dressing and bottle of drinking water was accounted for. My share was over $7500, I was told I was lucky. When I went for a post surgery check up with my doctor, ~I was told I couldn't be seen after that until they had proof of payment of the $7500. STBEXH complained I'd cost him a lot... I ended up leaving him, but that's another story...

A couple of years later, now single, I returned to the UK, registered with my GP locally and within three weeks got a letter to come in for a checkup based on my medical history. Not one penny charged and as I was unemployed, I was told about a fund I could claim my bus fares from.

There are other stories I can tell of American friends in the States' experiences with their healthcare system but I won't as it's second-hand info, the story above is what happened to me. I whole-heartedly believe in the wonderful NHS.

Its incredible that you literally have to pay to have a baby, give birth.
Imagine the pain and everything else and then having to pay. Sounds ridiculous really. I cant fathom paying thousands to give birth. I've done it 5 times and definitely would be bankrupt if I lived in the states. Really does make you appreciate the NHS