Things you thought were normal if you grew up working class

[Anycrispsleft]

Inspired by that "thought it was posh, turns out it wasn't" thread, I wondered if anyone else remembers stuff from a working class childhood that you thought everyone did and actually no it was just us?

Mine is playing with stray dogs. I was an adult before I realised that approaching strange dogs is meant to be dangerous. In my estate there were two strays (and one owned dog that would escape his garden) and they would chum along with us when we were out playing. We'd feed them crisps. (Luckily for the dogs I think we figured that crisps were more appropriate food for dogs than chocolate, as they were more salty and a bit like meat.) It would never have occurred to us not to befriend any other creature of the street. There was precious little else to do, why wouldn't we add a dog or two into the pack?

I don’t think questioning authority is bad. My nana would tell about when her hand was tied behind her back with a slipping rope at school in the late 20s as she was left handed and they wanted to break her of the habit. In her words her dad when down to the school and ‘played merry hell with them’.

What was sad was nana had a far meeker attitude to authority herself mostly. She passed the 11+ but her mam was a widow then and so nana couldn’t go as the money couldn’t be found for the special uniform. She still talked about it wistfully into her 80s.

I think class is one of those things you only start to understand to some degree once you're a bit older and experience and get to know and see the lives of a different class to the one you grew up with.

For all kids, what they grow up with feels normal, especially if pretty much everyone they know is from the same background. Only when you meet people from a different background who have different experiences or values does it make you see your own and realise they're not universal. Part of growing up for many peoole is to question their parents and their authority and when children move out and also into a world of a different class, that can be even more significant. Sometimes, even if only for a while, up young adults can disown their pasts and their parents. They can feel very uncomfortable with where they came from.....this can go for kids from working class or middle class backgrounds. And parents can find it really hard if their kids go and have experiences and do things they never have, especially if they had a strong sense of authority simply by being parents before.

I think after the confidence and certainty and black and white views of young adulthood pass, most grow a bit more of a sense of balance and come to see the positives of their upbringing and also that it's made them what they are, as well as finding their own way forward which might be a bit different.

People who never move away or only ever encounter people of similar backgrounds to themselves often struggle to understand how other people live or be anxious about mixing in more varied circles. It can manifest itself in prejudice or lack of confidence or aggression or defensiveness.

As a late teen, starting to mix with teenagers for the first time who were aspirational and enthusiastic to experience all life had available, was a real eye opener to me. My friends from school had limited aspirations and interests. They were lovely friends to grow up with, but they didn't see the stuff life could offer, and I hadn't really until I met some different peoole. Many of those old friends are still friends but remain within 5-10 miles of where we grew up. They went to work young, married or settled down young and had their kids in their 20s. They have close relationships with family who live nearby and are very house proud and family focused. Some of the friends I made at uni and after came from very different backgrounds. They were confident in the,sleeves and their place in the world and really believed the world was their oyster. And they've gone onto have a range of careers based across the world. Some have done truly exciting things and lived adventurous lives and others have had a successful career and then given it up to be SAHMs. When we meet, they love to talk about issues and it's a bit like being back at uni and having those late night discussions. It's just different to being with my old school friends. I love both groups dearly.

My kids now have had a pretty MC upbringing. Their peers and their families are largely professionals who aspire to do well and work hard and actively push forward into a positive future. But I'm really keen for them to have a chance to mix with and make friends from a variety of backgrounds. I think there are friendships to be made with all kinds of people and actually only when you start to do that, can you get a sense of perspective on yourself and your own experiences.

It’s understandable why sections of society are less trustworthy of authority and that will play out in different ways. We know it’s prevent now. My family fall more into not challenging authority or questioning someone they perceived to be higher in society than they are. I’m mixed Asian and this is cultural in some Asian backgrounds too knowing your place (and that is partly from British colonialism)

Being working class up until quite recently meant your life was set for you there wasn’t the same opportunities you knew from a child your life was going to be hard and much the same as your parent and their parents. What was instilled was the importance of putting family first (of course this didn’t always happen) my grandparents were able to buy a house as my granddads father had made some money through business towards the end of his life. Their greatest achievement was that they could leave that to their children and grandchildren it wasn’t a given they took immense pride in this to the point that they never ever treated themselves. Their joy was that we wouldn’t quite struggle in the way they did.

I agree it is when you start seeing that others live differently, have a slightly different set of values that you become aware. I was always embarrassed that our house though absolutely spotless was old fashioned but our cupboards were always very very well stocked with food (this is I think stems from being poor too)

Eating whatever you were given. No questions, no debate, no 'nothing can touch anything else on the plate'. You just had your tea, and that was that.

shrumps eating whatever you were given. No questions, no debate, no 'nothing can touch anything else on the plate'. You just had your tea, and that was that.

I can relate to that. Learned to puke at an early age.

OhWhyNot, yes my parents also put great store by leaving the house they worked hard for to myself and my siblings. They have a real horror of the idea they might have to go into a Home and then the property would be so,d to fund it and there would be nothing left to leave us. They have a strong sense of 'our hard work' and hate the idea that those they perceive as lazy who would be funded by the state might have the same as them but they themselves would be paying with what they see as our rightful inheritance.

I think you're right....The real joy for them hasn't been in enjoying the fruit of their labour,mas they almost can't allow the,sleeves to do that, but their frugality which is deeply engrained means we will be left something which they never were.

And yes, I understand why people are distrustful of those in authority or those who seem to be of a more affluent class than them. I can see that if you were treated poorly by those in authority or those in authority were the ones who charged you money, judged you negatively, never respected you, or made decisions which you felt disadvantaged you and never seemed to do anything good for you, then you would be suspicious. And those feelings run deep and are hard to shift even if your recent experiences have been different. As a young adult Inreally noticed how middle class friends' parents behaved differently towards authority figures. They spoke to them as equals. They showed respect but weren't subservient or aggressive and they felt they could ask questions and clarify and express views in conversations. It was more of a partnership thing than one of authority in the way they dealt with the authority figure and the authority figure responded by treating them as equals too. And socially, those parents were happy at events to chat happily to the Vicar, the bank manager, the teacher or headteacher, the business owner, their employer, the GP, the artist, the dentist without shying away from them or if having to engage in conversation, behaving as I feel they were different, but just as equals who did different jobs. I found that very eye opening too. And as i said before, it was eye opening when middle class friends' parents showed an interest in me and my successes and wanted to know my views on different topics. My parents' friends had never done that. The way they showed I'd grown up was to offer me a beer or ask me about where I went out at the weekend, but conversation was actually very limited in both topics and quantity.

Again, it wasn't that either was wrong or one was better....it was just different and I only saw it once I left home and mixed with a wider range of people. My eyes were opened to more of the world in the same way that travelling opens your eyes to the different ways peoole around the world live and how different it can be to out own experiences.

The thing this thread also shows me is how time passing has the same effect. We are all adults looking back often 30 years or more to childhoods. In lots of ways life is different now regardless of class and when we look back it is both familiar and like looking at a different country becaus time has passed and things are different now. We only gain that perspective with distance of time or place or variety of experiences.

I remember my dad being home early once - think I was about 14 - he said “it would be nice to get tea on before your mum gets in” , I didn’t know how to cook stuff like that , my dad said “well you’ll not make much of a wife if you can’t cook” . That was 1989 or so. That’s just how it was.

I was also first in the family to go to uni. When I visited my boyfriend’s family I thought they lived in a mansion (they didn’t) and they used quite a lot of words I’d never heard before. They were lovely though and - as described by others - were genuinely interested in me and what I was doing. The family had proper conversations, vegetables I’d never had (or heard of in some cases), a piano, spare rooms.....it was very posh to me, but it was just middle class. Just different.

@TrickyD

I was born at the end of the war. Compared to nowadays, our food and clothes were not plentiful, mainly due to rationing, but my parents owned two small shops so relative to most of my friends we were fairly prosperous.

We lived in a a small town. Dad was in the "Buffs", the Buffaloes, a working class edition of the Masons, and Mum was a star of the local operatic society. They belonged to various other local organisations and contributed a lot to the community.

When I met my DH, his family lived in a London council flat, and they did absolutely nothing other than watch TV. His dad and his mum had steady jobs, they were not poverty stricken.

The notion of doing anything for the general good was totally alien to them to the extent that they despised not only members of voluntary organisations but professionals too, "that nosy old cow' was how they referred to the Health Visitor. I found their lack of engagement with the community quite extraordinary.

This difference in world view was the difference between being working or middle class.

This is not a difference between MC and WC in my experience. The working class people I grew up around were very much engaged in the community, and in trying to make the world better.

My dad would come in from work about six, and his meal and a cup of tea would be placed in front of him straight away. If Mum forgot the salt pot, he'd say "Salt, love", and she'd go and fetch it. When he finished, she'd whip his plate away, and go and wash up in the kitchen. She was a SAHM when we were kids, then in our teens she started working in a local shop, but the teatime ritual carried on!

My mum and dad worked really hard to better themselves, and to give me and my brother every opportunity they didn’t have. I was the first to go to university in my dad’s side of the family, and the second in my mums. My mum passed to go to the local grammar, my dad went to a technical school, and both started work at 15.

My brother met a girl from the local council estate 20 years and moved in with her and immediately his world shrunk. Everything his partner needs - her parents, her kids, schools, Dr, dentist, supermarket - is within a mile of her home. They treat everything that’s not like them as snobby, or to be distrusted, and I’m seen as trying to be something I’m not. It’s hard work - I’m not ashamed of wanting security and a better life, and won’t be made to feel that way.

Net curtains,
shopping at Aldi and Lidl (before it was acceptable for the MC!),
using butchers/ getting large amounts of meat to freeze from the market,
birthday parties at McDonalds
Caravan holidays
Getting a job from 13 and working as well as going to school
Looking after yourself and younger sibs in holidays/after school as child care was expensive
Not taking benefits/free school meals as it was shameful

The rent man. Find it so hard to believe the poor buggers used to cycle round council estates collecting rent each week. Incredible. Wouldn't fancy their chances now, the tally man ditto. No phone. Dads who hung out in pubs or betting shops. No car. Only one fire in the house. The thrill of the meter man coming to empty the gas or electricity meters and handing over a refund. Taking a tuppeny and unaccompanied bus ride to Kensington and wandering around the museums alone, from about 10 years old. Never bothered or queried by anyone.

Every meal had a plate of bread and butter in the middle of the table. And when I say butter, I infact mean stork which normally cane from a catering sized tub

I made a long post last night to say not all working class families had narrow interests. My family were very poor and also unhappy but we had wide cultural and political interest, had family discussions and valued education. So I won't repeat that but just wanted to address the suspicious of authority point. Due to our family circumstances we did have social worker contact as did many families around us but my dad made it clear he was not happy and did not trust them. At the time I did not understand but have come to see where it comes from and is still prevalent now. My neighbour has said she would never allow her granchildren to go into care not matter what. What I did not know is that a lot of working class kids taken into 'care' in my home area became victims of a huge child abuse scandal which took decades to be addressed and so many suffered for years or killed themselves as aresult. So my dad and neighbours were quite right.

My friend was brought up my his father, he worked for the council some sort of groundsman thing. My friend was born an engineer, always tinkering, taking stuff apart, building his own bike from skip finds. He self taught alot but also did a bit of plumbing on a YTS. Started his own company as a domestic appliance engineer, much to his father's disgust. When are you going to get a job!

We were really poor growing up in the 1980s. I don't think we were working class as my parents were university lecturers by profession.

Divorce had left my mum really struggling. We did however have a mortgage on the house from when my dad lived with us which she managed to pay by eventually finding work. She was always meeting the bank manager to negotiate. She said his kindness kept the roof over our heads.

We would have dumplings made from flour and water as our main meal at least once a week. Potatoes all the time. We would have to weigh out our cereal - 25grms of Weetaflakes - to make sure we didn't eat too much.

I had cardboard in the soles of my shoes and we were always hungry. I remember seeing kids eating crisps at school break time and being fascinated as to why they were allowed them as my mum said they were a total waste of money because they didn't fill you up. I still really wanted them though. Even now I don't buy crisps as I can't see the point.

I think there is still an awful lot of poverty in the UK. An awful lot of people who are struggling and this was before Covid.

Shocking really that in such an apparently wealthy country, so many can't even eat properly.

You ate what you were given. If you didn't eat it, you'd be told off for being ungrateful and you'd go to bed hungry. Dad always had the biggest portion of food.

There was a real fear of being seen as 'common' or something was done by a family member that would 'embarrass the family'. Your family's standing was really important from what I remember.

I remember hearing about those who were 'your betters'. They were rich (relatively) and successful so were 'better' than you.

@cateycloggs I hear you! My nana had been forced by poverty to leave school at 15 in 1937 to bring in a wage. But she was very interested in so many things and used the library religiously. She often borrowed non fiction and read a lot of books about archeology. My grandad was very interested in politics and although also not very educated was a passionate labour supporter. I used to talk to him about it all for hours.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable I agree about community. If anything I think my nana and her neighbours were way more community minded than the mc area I live in now. I’ve already mentioned nana’s mini bank for neighbours. She also had a list of elderly ladies and did their shopping for them, went to church and helped there, looked after people’s kids. When nana was very old herself the people on the street often brought her a roast dinner if they were acing one on a Sunday - they walked her plate over to her house, people popped by to see her and a neighbour took her down to church. People can look down on council estates but my experience with nana was that there was a lot of community feeling.

My mum and dad worked really hard to better themselves, and to give me and my brother every opportunity they didn’t have.

Mine too, every single local "enrichment programme for disadvantaged children" in the holidays, I got signed up to

I honestly never realised I was poor till I was 14 (and got put into all the top sets with the 'posh' kids for GCSEs)

The chip pan! It had an once of black burnt stuff on the outside of the pan and always full of set lard that would be used 10 times for the chips before it was replaced.

Always reminds me of that episode of the royle family "Jim there's no chip pan!!"

We had a chip pan when I was really little but my mum threw it out when McCain introduced oven chips!!

The top bedcover. A bedspread. Also known as a counterpane. As Bill Bryson recalled in Notes from a Small Island. On his first night in England, in a B&B, having been asked by landlady to not damage the counterpane, and having assured her he would be careful, he stood bewildered in his room wondering 'what the fuck is a counterpane?'

@Frickssake - If it's not feather (eiderdown) it's a counterpane, often made with that candlewick material.

Big thick army coats on the bed because the bed covers we had were threadbare. We didn't even know anybody in the army. Oh and ice on the inside of the windows in winter. One thing I did love but now find gross, sugar butties.

I remember that my parents were very keen not to be shown up in front of anyone. They wanted to appear respectable and reasonably off.

My Mum got lots of clothes at jumble sales. Once, when I was small and we at a friends house, someone complimented my Mums dress and Insaid it was from the jumble sale. Later that night I was in BIG trouble from my Dad for showing my Mum up. I was to,d in no uncertain terms that we never told people where we bought things from or discussed things at home with the outside world. They were very proud and like many, didn’t want others to know about the scrimping which went on, although in reality, everyone was at it, but liked to suggest there was plenty to the world.

Very occasionally we could have a friend to tea. However, it always had to be organised in advance and not be impromptu. Mum liked to have been able to plan the meals and to have that extra portion and make sure the house looked fit for the visitor and their parent if they came to pick them up, but usually the child, however small just took themselves home. If people came round and knocked we went out to play and they didn’t come into the house. When it was meal time, other children knew it was time to go away and there was no expectation of being invited in. There wouldn’t have been a spare portion for them. Very occasionally Mum would give us a biscuit out in the street whilst playing and give one to a friend playing too...but usually not. Again, there just weren’t spares to be sharing with other children and there was very much the sense that everyone was responsible for their own children. There was none of this going out for the day for a paid activity and taking friends and paying for them or paying for a whole other family to go out. In fact, there weren’t really days out when you paid for an activity except maybe once or twice a year or on holiday.

I always remember an Adrian Mole book of his later years speaking about his childhood and saying he never asked ‘what are we doing today’ at the weekend....there was no point because the answer would have been ‘nothing’. Children spent their feee time hanging around and playing out or playing inside whilst parents got on with jobs. Dad was always maintaining the car or mending something or gardening. Mum was always in the kitchen or perhaps sewing. They always seemed to have plenty of jobs to do and entertaining us or ‘enriching us’ wasn’t on the list.