Surrogacy - thoughts, advice, help

[INeedAMinute]

Hello! I’m new here, although a long time lurker. My story is that I had a late miscarriage last year due to a bad fall, it was my first baby and I was unfortunate enough that the D&C procedure damaged my endometrium. We’ve always dreamt of being parents and are in a place where we're feeling much more positive after the sadness of what happened. And of course, are extremely nervous about looking into surrogacy, having frozen some embryos through IVF. My mum fostered kids when I was growing up and I've always been part of a really child-centred family, which makes it a bit weird to think I won't be carrying my own. I understand that surrogacy is debated hard on Mumsnet but I wanted to post here to get some advice on people's experiences as we want to go in with our eyes open. We've not yet signed up to surrogacy UK but would be really interested to hear any thoughts on the best way to get involved with this world. Are there any good UK-based online groups to discuss this (most of the ones I've seen are based in the US). I'd also love to talk to women who've been through this already as a gestational carrier, or who are considering it. I imagine it must be really intense as well as (hopefully) worthwhile to bring a new life into the world in this way.

I’m sure you won’t want to hear many comments on here.
A ‘gestational carrier’ is actually a mother. They put their lives at significant risk. Dehumanising them with such an awful label is a way of pretending that surrogacy is a simple procedure where no one gets emotionally damaged.
If you want children, why not adoption? I don't think any adoptive parent considers the children they adopt to not be their children. Babies and women who are used as mothers for surrogate babies are not commodities for sale.

This is not the place to ask. Most here do not agree with surrogacy.

I cannot advise about surrogacy but I have one birth child and one adopted. I love them both the same on a day when neither are trying to piss me off.

BBC 3 currently has a 3 episode series following a few different surrogacy teams. You might find it interesting

Gestational Carrier? That is shocking. That is the babies mother. To create a life with the express intention of removing it from its mother, the only thing it knows/wants is barbaric. Says more about your want/ need to be a mother than about needs/rights of the baby.

Surrogacy intentionally separates newborns from their mothers. It's immoral. The baby will not have an attachment to you at birth, it will have an attachment to the mother it has known for 9 months. Creating attachment trauma in newborns deliberately is totally unethical. It's grim.
I'm sorry for your loss and the shock of losing your fertility but you should not be thinking of surrogacy as an option.

Thank you @PinkPlantCase I did hear about that show, definitely going to watch!

Gestational carrier?

If the embryos are yours and your partners (ie not the surrogates eggs) then why is gestational carrier an unacceptable term ?
If the surrogate is consenting to this then we need to respect that as a woman’s choice to do as she pleases with her own body and her own free will surely ?

Thanks @Ohdoleavemealone (and thanks for the heads up - I see your point)

I have started looking into adoption as well, although I'm still very attached to the idea of having at least one biological child. I'd like to foster at some point in the future but I think both adoption and fostering are best suited to very experienced parents, especially these days when so many children have been in the system for years before they find a home.

OP I'm so sorry you've had such unpleasant comments on here. I would absolutely do the same in your shoes I know someone who used a surrogate (it was someone known to the couple who volunteered though not a close contact) using the father's sperm and the surrogate's eggs. They have a gorgeous set of twins who are now 7. Good luck

Also OP I would like to say I’m very sorry for your loss

Can I suggest you just delete or hide this thread? Surrogacy has become one of the many, many subjects that MN loves to hate. It's not reflective of RL.

OP have you got a woman in mind to be your surrogate?

Ok OP this is a second hand story of sorts but my friend was a surrogate for her sister and BIL and did the absolute best practice surrogacy, which is way more than just being pregnant. It's about centering the baby and mother (surrogate mother that is) every step of the way and allowing the bio parents to play a background role rather than a primary role. They did this by:

• my friend was fairly young (26 IIRC) no history of physical or mental health issues
• she was fully aware of not only every single step of the process, from pre-conception to week after birth, but also the very real risks. She was given ample opportunity to pull out. She was not begged or coerced and guilt tripped.
• the surrogacy took place in this country and passed an ethics committee. She was able to go through the procedures fairly locally (20 miles away)
• she had the full support of her employer prior to the procedure
• the pregnancy was treated like her pregnancy, because it was. There was no pressure to have her sister and BIL at every appointment and scan (her sister came to some)
• she made sole decisions about her pregnancy, birth plan etc with no input from her sister and BIL because it wasn't their pregnancy
• she only had her mum at the birth. her sister and BIL came at visiting time after the baby was born. She wouldn't have had them there had she had a child she was keeping so she had the same principle for this birth
• she behaved like the baby's "real" mother to begin with. Babies are born expecting the person who gave birth to them to be there, and they can suffer from separation anxiety if they are immediately taken away. She breastfed him, and she moved in with them for 12 weeks after the birth to "transition" him over to the bio mum and dad
• he is now six years old, she lives nearby and they're very close. He's been told from the off that Whilst mummy and daddy made the seeds that created him, Aunty Andrea grew him. He understands, kids don't complicate things
• they all maintain a close bond and have regular contact. She cares for her nephew immensely and has said she couldn't have done it had he not been in her life afterwards.

Her sister and BIL have in lockdown had their own pregnancy after being told it was nigh on impossible , and I know they feel that my friend's experience and the brilliant way they handled it is even more significant, because when their DS asks "did I kick much in Aunty Andrea's tummy" (rather than "mummy's tummy) when his little sister kicked, they aren't worrying that they now have something huge to tell him one day. Because people can say "it's not biology that makes a parent" but actually it DOES matter.

Bottom line: do it ethically, with a trusted person who fully comprehends the risks and process, and centre the mother and child. There is no other successful way to get surrogacy right.

Sadly I think the vast majority of surrogacies don't go the way my friend's went, a hell of a lot of unethical people findloop holes and leave their hired womb, sorry surrogate, out to dry

@myBusinessNotyours

If the embryos are yours and your partners (ie not the surrogates eggs) then why is gestational carrier an unacceptable term ? If the surrogate is consenting to this then we need to respect that as a woman’s choice to do as she pleases with her own body and her own free will surely ?

Because the woman who gestated and birthed the child is the child's mother. Babies don't know their DNA they only know who their mother is, and every part of the baby's body was made of the body of the mother. Gestational carrier is a vile, misogynist term designed to commodify babies and pregnancy and sanitise an otherwise unsanitary practice which is deliberately creating infants in order to intentionally separate them from their mother.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows that's an amazing story and very reassuring, thanks for sharing.

I don't have anyone in mind to be honest, although I do have a cousin I'm very close to with whom I may discuss it. She doesn't have any children of her own yet though, so it's unlikely to work out within a reasonable timeframe. No sisters on my side or on my husband's side, unfortunately.

I completely agree that what you've described the ideal scenario. I hope, if we go ahead, we can get as close to this as possible.

(Love your username btw)

If it was about centering the baby surrogacy would be illegal. Bringing a child into the world planning to sever its first attachment is immoral

@Defmy I just wanted to try and get some honest, non-sugarcoated perspectives from people with genuine experience of this.

I'm really sorry that some of the comments aren't particularly tactful, I'd agree they're not fully reflective of the reality.

@LondonMummer thanks so much, it's so nice to hear these positive stories.

using...the surrogate's eggs

Or, less euphemistically, the baby's mother.

How might that child feel one day to know that they were deliberately conceived for the sole purpose of being given away by their own biological mother?

I would advise you to post on another site if you want advice on this as MN is very very anti surrogacy, I’m sorry for your loss.

@Defmy I just wanted to try and get some honest, non-sugarcoated perspectives from people with genuine experience of this.

Fair enough, I was just thinking of your feelings.

I have a little girl through surrogacy, now ten. No regret from anyone involved. It was a very positive experience and she was a very settled, responsive (to me) baby from Day 1. The lady who carried her was delighted to be part of it and found it hilarious when the midwife told her she didn't need to put a brave face on things, it must be a difficult time. She had her own children. She didn't feel an attachment with our baby, ever, although she's a family friend. My daughter had skin-to-skin with me immediately and spent the first month of her life in my arms. She was very attached and responsive from day one. She has no problem with how she came into the world. Children are very practical. Mummy's tummy didn't work, Mummy's very kind friend helped, everyone was delighted to meet me, the end.

We knew a lot of other surrogacy journeys going on at the same time. Every one turned out very happily with many sibling journeys happening afterwards.

MN gives an extremely biased and inaccurate picture of what surrogacy is actually like in the UK. Unlike the Channel 3 documentary currently showing, I have heard of no one of was a surrogate for their boss (how that got past an ethics committee is beyond me if they used a UK fertility clinic), and I do not think the lady with the little boy in Episode 1 would have been passed by a UK ethics committee either, as she was clearly depressed at the start of the journey. They are not representative and would not be considered good practice within the wider surrogacy community.

I wouldn't discuss your surrogacy thoughts with someone you hope could be a surrogate. It's for them to offer and they need to have their own children first. I also think the breast feeding story above it outside the realms of what most surrogates or IPs would be able to deal with - it's not done. Most surrogates describe themselves as 'surrogate' and really don't want to be called a parent in any shape or form.

@campion

using...the surrogate's eggs

Or, less euphemistically, the baby's mother.

How might that child feel one day to know that they were deliberately conceived for the sole purpose of being given away by their own biological mother?

As with many adopted children their "mother" is the person who raises them, feeds them, nurtures them, comforts them loves them with every single bone in her body.

Also, if you look at the number of Parental Orders awarded without incident (which requires a court appointed guardian to inquire very closely into how the surrogate feels about the experience on reflection, whether she felt under pressure and if she is is happy to go ahead with the arrangement a minimum of 6 weeks after delivery when she has had time to fully reflect) versus the very low number of litigation cases, it is clear that the majority of journeys do not end in tears.

You're welcome @INeedAMinute. It's a very contentious subject especially on MN, and for good reasons, but whilst some surrogacies are dodgy I absolutely believe it can be done ethically and I wish you the best of luck