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Help with young autistic female child.

63 replies

tuliprosedaffodil · 20/03/2021 19:45

Hello,

I haven't posted this on SEN because it's so quiet so was hoping I'd get more responses on here. Would be really useful to get input from other parents with children on the autism spectrum.

My daughter is just five. She was diagnosed at three. She is very cognitively able, has a vast vocabulary and advanced academically (so far, she is only in Reception - I mean she is already reading and writing fluently and clearly, retains knowledge, is working at more of a KS1 level for most subjects not that she's a mini Einstein in the making of that makes sense).

She has an EHCP and 1-1 support at school because she has struggled to cope with her peers, has meltdowns when she becomes overwhelmed, has sensory difficulties. All in all school has gone better than expected, with a high level of adult support she's even started to make friendships. To give an idea of the level of support she has we received mid-rate DLA for her and I receive carers allowance.

We are having terrible trouble at home though. She's holding it together at school and exploding at home. So far so normal really, I can deal with the meltdowns I'm used to it now and see them coming a mile off.

But what I am finding really hard to deal with is - and I hesitate to call it this because it sounds horrible - her manipulative streak. I should say here that were really conscious of the language we use around and to her, she forgets nothing and takes things really to heart so we don't tell her that she's a bad or naughty girl for example. We talk about good or bad choices instead.

When I say manipulative I will give you an example, but this isn't the first time she's said things like this but not to this extreme. Today, she has been awkward, deliberately back chatting, not listening - more typical five year old behaviour. After she's been told repeatedly not to mess around in the bath today when she got out I said 'oh dear it's a shame but if we can't listen to mummy and daddy then we're going to have to stop doing nice things like going to the park I'm afraid'. I also explained (because she always needs an explanation) again about safety, why we don't mess around in the bath etc.

She sat quietly whilst I dried her hair and said after 'ok mummy. I'm not going to listen so I guess I won't play with any toys anymore, I won't see Grandma, and I won't go to the park'. I agreed and said it was her choice but we need to see some better behaviour if we're going to have or do nice fun things.

Then she said in a sad voice 'Well mummy I think I'll go and live in another house. On my own, with no family and no one to love me. I will stop loving you all too and then no one will miss me'.

I was pretty gobsmacked at that. I mean she is only just five years old. How on earth has she even got that into her head? I told her calmly that would be a terrible shame, that if she wasn't here we'd miss her and that of course we would always love her no matter what.

We had a rather circular conversation for a while, with me just repeating that we always loved her no matter what and her saying that she wanted to live on her own with no one loving her. In the end, I managed to distract her, and she snapped out of it, we settled down and she seemed fine again after stories, cuddles etc. She went to sleep fine.

But I'm left here scratching my head. I mean WTF?

Anyone got any wise words on how to deal with this? She's in a stable, loving, supportive home with me, her Dad and her little sister. There is no conflict around her, she has everything she could need or want (she's not spoilt, but all needs met with some treats). I'm a SAHM/her carer, she has my full care.

OP posts:
Grimbelina · 22/03/2021 08:46

Just PM'd you

jessstan2 · 22/03/2021 08:55

What does messing about in the bath mean exactly? All young children play and splash in the bath. When mine was your daughter's age I used to be in the bath too, washing and playing alongside.

She sounds very logical and articulate. Punishments for messing about in the bath seem harsh.

tuliprosedaffodil · 22/03/2021 09:35

@jessstan2

What does messing about in the bath mean exactly? All young children play and splash in the bath. When mine was your daughter's age I used to be in the bath too, washing and playing alongside.

She sounds very logical and articulate. Punishments for messing about in the bath seem harsh.

I don't mind splashing, having fun and playing. I do mind repeatedly and deliberately chucking cups of water on the floor, using the bath squirters to spray people and messing about dangerously. Standing up and jumping. She had been asked to stop several times - and she'd been persistently refusing to do as she was asked all day.

She is articulate and logical, very. She is also perfectly capable of being naughty sometimes. She's autistic yes, but she's also five and all five year olds push boundaries and play up. She knows perfectly well why she can't jump in the bath, because she might slip and hurt herself but I did explain this to her again, very clearly.

OP posts:

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jessstan2 · 22/03/2021 09:36

Good,l et's hope she takes it on board.

cansu · 22/03/2021 09:44

Maybe you just need to be a bit less wordy and explaining why. I know you said her language is very good but maybe it would be better to make consequences immediate and less of a punishment.eg messing around in the bath so it is dangerous, one warning to stop and then plug out and bath is finished. Or even two fine minute sand timer and bath time is finished. With my dd who was much less cognitively able this kind of straight forward approach worked well.

jessstan2 · 22/03/2021 09:48

cansu talks sense. Most children of the op's daughter's age behave like that in the bath until they learn not to. Some even flood the bathroom! Mine never did that but bathing was fun and messy. I didn't punish for it.

tuliprosedaffodil · 22/03/2021 13:53

@cansu We do use colourful sand timers a lot actually, for transitions. Hasn't thought of using one for bath time, good shout.

@jessstan2 Bathing is fun and splashy here but she wasn't just splashing about a bit. To give you an idea I put towels down and they're usually splashed and a bit wet- fine, this week it was dripping and sodden. Not fine. She was quite deliberately throwing water everywhere, over people and putting herself in danger with her jumping. That's not acceptable behaviour in this house, ASD or no.

OP posts:
tuliprosedaffodil · 22/03/2021 13:55

I've just had a look at the neuro-linguistic programming you mentioned @ThePontiacBandit , only read the basics but it's really interesting! Definitely something to explore.

OP posts:
AmaryllisNightAndDay · 22/03/2021 14:39

She was quite deliberately throwing water everywhere, over people and putting herself in danger with her jumping. That's not acceptable behaviour in this house, ASD or no.

It's about finding the most effective ways to stop her. She needs instructions and consequences that are small, specific, concrete and immediate. Small children don't understand the connection between spraying people and not going to the park tomorrow, or jumping in the bath and hurting themselves - well not until it happens! So some explanation may be good for long term learning and to reassure her that there is a good reason, but it wont stop her doing it.

As Cansu says, the very simple immediate consequence - one warning and then bathtime is over - is more effective. You can explain the rules ahead of time or even do a "social story" for bathtime. You may need to plan ahead and be quite creative to find good consequences for each situation! And do keep giving positive instructions and suggestions. "Water stays inside the bath". "Sit down, it is safer." "You can sit or lie in the bath" "spray toys not people" etc.

minniemoocher · 22/03/2021 14:47

My dd was very similar to your dd at that age (grown up now). We found the only punishment and reward system that worked was money. She loved (still loves) books and in particular collecting series of books, from very young she grasped that 6 coins (50p) bought one of her then preferred books so each day if she was good she hit a coin, and every Saturday we went to story time at the book store and she could buy the next book, if she didn't comply there was not enough for a book!

Just an idea.

Make sure all consequences are logical and yes, they never forget!

jessstan2 · 22/03/2021 14:47

You said she was throwing water over people. How many people does she have in the bathroom?

tuliprosedaffodil · 22/03/2021 14:50

@jessstan2 Well her Dad was bathing her, and me and her toddler sister were pottering around upstairs popping in and out getting her sister ready to go in after her, getting toothbrushes and towels etc. So there was 3 of us in soaking range, at different points.

Why does it matter? Hmm

OP posts:
jessstan2 · 22/03/2021 16:27

[quote tuliprosedaffodil]@jessstan2 Well her Dad was bathing her, and me and her toddler sister were pottering around upstairs popping in and out getting her sister ready to go in after her, getting toothbrushes and towels etc. So there was 3 of us in soaking range, at different points.

Why does it matter? Hmm[/quote]
The more people around, the more excited she will be - and targets for her water throwing!

Best if just one person bathes her quickly, take the water throwing tools out of the bath too.

She'll outgrow this, tulip.

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