Rhotacism

[lorca]

Does anyone have rhotacism? I think I do, it's difficult to tell. Kids at school (long time ago) told me that I say 'ruler' funny, and I think I do. I have become a human thesaurus - will say 'mate' rather than 'friend', go 'jogging' rather than 'running', will ask to 'reschedule', not 'rearrange'...And I would never move to Redruth and I avoid people called Roy or Ron!

Words like Try or Cry seem ok to me, but Friend, Frightened, Referree - awful!

Anyone defeated it? With Speech therapy, say? I'm not sure how 'severe' my case is, I've downloaded a speech recorder but apparently it's also common for sufferers to not be able to hear a R mispronounced as W? I can't tell. I can hear Lucy Worsley's rhotacism, say, or Johnathon Ross, but they are out-there and unashamed!

I'm also interested in whether accents help - I think the rolling Rrrrr of Scottish, or Irish, or Russian must help? I learned French and German, and I can say those Rs (I think).

I've nc for this to an old name - as I would hate for it to be linked to my normal account. I hate it when people even slightly prick up their ears at my voice.

This is like how Rik from the Young Ones said his R’s, isn’t it? I don’t have it - but maybe because I’m not born here. OP I feel for you, and hope you’re not teased too much about it, but you do know it doesn’t exist in other English speaking countries like Australia, New Zealand, the US and Canada? It’s purely a British thing! I’ve always found it so weird. Everybody else can pronounce their R’s, so what is it about some British people that they do this??

Rik from the Young Ones - exactly . He didn't really make it cool!

That's what I am interested in - other languages/accents don't seem to have such a thing. Only the English, who 'swallow their Rs' according to other nationalities!

It's odd tho, my mother is European, and uses a language with a rolling R, and everyone else in the family can pronounce their Rs, so why me? What am I missing/not doing? Is it because I don't hear it properly? Or am I not doing something with my tongue? (my mother never taught us her language otherwise maybe I could have learned it properly)

Have you spoken to a speech therapist?

My son has had a significant amount of SLT and this is the last sound he can't make properly. It's weird, when he tries to say "range rover" it comes out as "wange rover". So he can make it sometimes.

I think Lucy Worsley's is very mild though. It's no where near as obvious as Jonathan Ross's.

I think you'd need to see a speech therapist for an auditory discrimination assessment.

If you can't hear it, you won't be able to work on it by yourself.

We're Irish and DS can't pronounce r at all. He's had SLT and everything, he just can't do it, no matter how much he tries.

Thankfully he doesn't mind.

I haven't spoken to a speech and Language therapist no, I am in my 50s now and wonder if it's worth it, esp if it is the last to be mastered. Any SALT on here? How long would it take?

I'm not sure what an auditory assessment is? I've had a hearing test, and that is fine, excellent even. Where would i go for an auditory discrimination assessment?

Isola - see I think Lucy Worsley has it quite bad! I can even see her lips in the 'wrong' place for some words, IYSWIM. Pursed, for 'Royal', for eg. That's how I would say it too, if I wasn't trying really hard to leave my tongue in my mouth rather than sticking my lower lip out.

Utterly - it's a bit disheartening that even with SALT he can't get it. I wonder if it will come later? And Irish is an accent with a Rolling R. isn't it?

We are Scottish and my dd has this. She is 21 now and had a lot of SLT when she was a child. It helped with all the other sounds but not r and not what she calls "the zoomies".
She can sometimes get the r sound now but it's a bit hit and miss. Thank goodness I didn't call any of her brothers Ruairidh🤣

The placing/arrangement of the mouth appears similar for R and W sounds, but I think it is to do with where in the mouth the sounds comes from?
When I say R it comes from the top of my mouth, between the front teeth. When I say W it comes from the bottom of the mouth, more the shape/form I would make if I was going to whistle.

Oh lessstressed - saying Rory is my nightmare! Likewise Ruth, Rupert, Richard. Interestingly though some R-names, like Rob, Rachel, seem ok (To me) though I can't say Ron. And FR is an awful one - Frank, Francis - can't say them. Fruit. Frippery The F sound anywhere in the word seems to aggravate the R sound - referee, referral, reference.

Interesting that even in Scottish and Irish accents the Rhotacism comes out!

That's really interesting - I'm Scottish and am not immediately aware of any Scottish people with that issue. I'd have said it's unusual for those of us who roll our Rs to the extent that we say girrul for girl.

I'm sorry that it bothers you - if I'm not wrong, we associate it with poshness, so don't knock it too much 🥰

Oh I think I have this. I’d assumed it was because of the shape of my mouth / teeth

Back of your tongue has to hit the roof of your mouth I think. Similar to kuh and guh.

Poor DS calls his big sister Wosie When he was tiny and couldn't manage that, she was Wowo. He thinks it's funny, thankfully, and has never been teased for it, so isn't bothered in the least.

It's not a back-of-the-tongue thing, DS was told that the front needed to be up like for L, but moved back a bit and not touching.

@Handsnotwands

Oh I think I have this. I’d assumed it was because of the shape of my mouth / teeth

I don’t think it can be, as then you would find it in Australia, Canada, etc - where much of the population has exactly the same English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh ancestry. It’s cultural (I kind of thought it was a ‘posh’ thing) too, but no one knows exactly why it’s specific to the UK.

Aunt was a speech therapist in Australia and she says you get it in children along with lisps and stammers, etc, but Aus children all seem to grow out of this specific type of speech impediment in her experience 🤷‍♀️

I’d assumed it was because of the shape of my mouth / teeth I did wonder this, as I sucked my thumb until late into my teens (and I still sometimes wake up with my thumb in my mouth! ) and my teeth are slightly 'bucky'. I'm also the only one in my family (3 siblings) to have it.

I wish there was a quick solution, but there doesn't seem to be. i work with the public too, and as I say, some names are awful for me. It's embarrassing, more than anything.

I don't know anyone else who has it.

@lorca

I’d assumed it was because of the shape of my mouth / teeth I did wonder this, as I sucked my thumb until late into my teens (and I still sometimes wake up with my thumb in my mouth! ) and my teeth are slightly 'bucky'. I'm also the only one in my family (3 siblings) to have it.

I wish there was a quick solution, but there doesn't seem to be. i work with the public too, and as I say, some names are awful for me. It's embarrassing, more than anything.

I don't know anyone else who has it.

Don't be embarrassed! It's a pretty minor thing in the grand scheme of things, and I hope nobody makes you feel awkward about it.

It's not a quick fix, but I wonder if getting braces & straightening those front teeth might fix it? There are some great options for adult braces that are invisible or hidden so it's not evident you have them.

I’ve met a Canadian child and a French child who had trouble with’r’. I don’t think I’ve noticed it in Canadian or French adults though, so perhaps they tend to grow out of it.