Any university admissions officers here? How much does MFL make a difference?

[thebellsofsaintclements]

My DD is just deciding her GCSE options. She doesn't really get on with languages, but says she is feeling pressurised by the school, who say that Universities take a dim view of applicants who haven't done a MFL GCSE.

Is this true? Or just something schools say to boost the uptake of languages GCSEs? Would it make a difference to Unis that she also speaks a minority language (not one that is offered at GCSE level at her school) at home, albeit not very fluently?

Thanks in advance!

PS For what it's worth, she's planning on studying an artsy subject at Uni - not sure if that also makes a difference? It is the case that Unis aren't bothered about languages if you want to study science, but that they would expect it if they are applying for a humanities course?

I'm not an admissions officer, but as far as I know only one university (LSE?) is interested in an MFL at GCSE.

The MFL teaching at DD's school was very poor, so she didn't take MFL past year 9. She achieved excellent GCSE and A level results and is now at a well regarded RG university.

The school is peddling very outdated information.

The only U.K. uni with a general MFL requirement is UCL, and even then you don't need a gcse just take some courses when you're there.

Uni admissions are aware that not all applicants will have been able to take an MFL, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Brilliant, thanks for that RampantIvy. That was my impression too, but it seems that the school are putting pressure on them to take languages, and making out like it'll be really difficult to get accepted to Uni unless they do an MFL! I was just wondering what the latest thinking on this is.

Thanks Errol, that is good to hear. To be fair to the school I don't think they were saying that it is an official requirement for Unis, but more like that Unis will think you are a 'not very well rounded' candidate or uninterested in other cultures (especially post Brexit) and therefore might look down on you.

Thank you @ErrolTheDragon. I knew it was a London university, but I couldn't remember which one. You don't need MFL to apply for Oxbridge/medicine/vetmed OP. The school is talking a load of rubbish.

When DD and I attended subject talks at university I found that what the school told us differed greatly from what universities told us. For example D of E - they don't care. If the course is not over subscribed they don't even read the personal statements.

I'd suggest you take a look at the websites for a few courses at unis of the type you think your DD may eventually be interested in. They all have the requirements specified. See if you can find any mention whatever that an MFL is required or desirable.

GCSEs aren't necessarily that important except for a few subjects/courses. The places which do take them into account may go on grades relative to the school cohort, that sort of thing, so a weak MFL grade could even be deleterious versus a better grade in eg drama.

I get so angry when students try to push all students toward one outcome.

Options are an important part of the exploration process. Let her take subjects she loves!

@ErrolTheDragon

The school is peddling very outdated information.

The only U.K. uni with a general MFL requirement is UCL, and even then you don't need a gcse just take some courses when you're there.

Uni admissions are aware that not all applicants will have been able to take an MFL, especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds.

That’s good to know

I think it was the one I looked at for an unrelated degree for Ds

I’m glad this is becoming outdated

Just to be clear, I'm not a uni admins person but I've seen a lot of threads asking this question over the years.

Thanks so much all! :))

I don't doubt for one second the information above. However, I feel a sadness that MFL is dropped by so many children. I only achieved a grade C in the two languages I learnt at school, but it is a skill for life and I take pride in being able to go to the three countries in Europe where one or other is the main language and not have to ask for a menu or go to a museum and want the people to speak in English.

At least the OPs DD does speak another language, pity it cannot be taken at GCSE level at the school the DD is at.

I think if students are considering studying in other countries, like the US, then it is sensible to keep a MFL through at least GCSE level if possible. It is considered 'university track' in countries like the US.

@peak2021

I don't doubt for one second the information above. However, I feel a sadness that MFL is dropped by so many children. I only achieved a grade C in the two languages I learnt at school, but it is a skill for life and I take pride in being able to go to the three countries in Europe where one or other is the main language and not have to ask for a menu or go to a museum and want the people to speak in English.

At least the OPs DD does speak another language, pity it cannot be taken at GCSE level at the school the DD is at.

Whereas I got an A* in German GCSE and remember precisely two phrases (sorry I'm late, and where is the station). I remember more french and I dropped that in year 9. (I don't remember much of that either though) My son is dyslexic and learning French is excruciatingly hard for him. I'm hoping he can drop it and not do a MFL at all for GCSE. Languages aren't for everyone!

Regardless of any university looking at MLF at GCSE level I think this attitude towards MLF very sad.

I am German and most of us learn 2-3 languages in secondary school. I now work for a German bank in the UK and we pay a premium for people with a second language to a decent degree. The UK is not seeing a language as important and now with Brexit it is even more vita to change attitudes.

I am glad that DD’s school puts MLF as a mandatory subject. I was initially not that keen that they restricted the teaching to just one language but on the other hand she has a good amount of teaching, putting her knowledge above the once of her friends who learn 2 at the same time.

I am saying this as someone who got grades to what is around a “D” here in the UK on a regular basis. You never know how life develops.

I think (I may be wrong!) that schools get extra kudos/cash for getting kids to do a MFL at GCSE as it ‘ticks the box’ for them to be seen as offering the EBac?

I would just add that depending on what sort of job she wants when she’s older, an ability in a language could be a real asset. It’s my biggest regret, as I did french to GCSE and nothing more (and didn’t keep it up at all). Where I work now and in previous jobs, having a language would have been a real asset. I only see this becoming more and more true as time goes on.

I don’t think it matters. Unis want good maths and English grades plus good grades in the relevant subjects. If there is no link to a mfl, don’t do it. She should do subjects she enjoys.

When I was applying for university in the 1980s I couldn’t do the degree I wanted at my first choice university as I had failed my French O Level. So, yes, very outdated!

However, for a lot of secondary schools near us, they push languages (I believe at the nearest grammar students have to take one at GCSE) as they follow the English Baccalaureate curriculum. DfE rank schools on this in their comparison tables and it is seen by some schools as a gold standard. Universities don’t seem bothered, though!

I don’t believe most universities really consider it, if it’s not relevant to the degree. FWIW, I did GCSE French and never really learned a lot. I did a free French course at university and found it so much better. If she does decide she wants to learn a language later, I believe there are much better ways to do so than through the GCSE system.

I agree with you @reluctantbrit. I have O levels in French and German, and A level French. I also carried on studying them at evening class, but I enjoy languages.

If the teaching at DD's school hadn't been so poor she probably would have engaged with French better. Having French at A level made it very clear to me just how poor the teaching was. She was learning some verbs in year 8 and I asked her how she would conjugate the ones she was learning. She had never even heard of the word conjugate

In the end she chose art instead of French, where she achieved an A. I think she might have scraped a C in French.

Unless she's wanting to take a degree in said language, no one will be interested

We have this with some students in their interviews as trainee scientists, they think we want to know about their language qualifications (usually French, sometimes Spanish).

Spoiler alert, we don't!

I believe some universities take GCSEs into account for some courses, but ultimately it's going to matter more which A levels a candidate has than whether they have a language GCSE. My son dropped Spanish after a timetable change but still has offers from all the uni courses he applied for so it hasn't impacted him at all.

I'm going through this with my son at the moment. I would love him to take a language and agree with all the points above about why its important. BUT

We live in a different world to the one I grew up in. When if you didn't learn at school it was hard to pick up later. Now, once he realises the importance he can easily self study - duo lingo, YouTube, online courses etc etc. And a motivated person will learn it much more quickly than a demotivated student. So I am going to let him pick the subjects he will put effort into. (With a caveat that we have discussed this already and I do think, apart from the language, he has his head screwed on.)

While a language can definitely be useful at work, a GCSE in a language is not. You would need much greater proficiency than that.

Our education system, unlike in countries where significant curriculum time is devoted to languages for 10 years, is not geared towards people being able to speak other languages and without other input a GCSE won't compensate for this.