Help! What to charge for selling my art - retail prices/mark up.

[JulietMadeChutney]

I have recently started selling limited edition prints (and some commissions/originals) of some of my drawings. Some have been through Etsy, some through local FB pages.

I have just received a message from one of our local shops asking if they can stock some of my prints to sell.

Obviously I am delighted - but I have absolutely zero idea about how this works.

I think there is (generally?) 30% mark up. But do we agree to sell at the same price (just I sell to her for less and therefore we share the profit). Which of course I could live with..... Do we agree that she cannot sell below my price on Etsy?

If she sells my products unless specifically agreed can I still sell via other shops in town? Or is that one of those unspoken "you don't do that" rules in retail?

Does she buy them off me - and it is her stock. Or does she just hold stock and give me the money if it sells (no, that can't be right...but I know there are some weird shopping places/local markety places that work like that).

I know I sound really, really stupid here. And I feel it. It seems like a great opportunity - but I don't want to screw myself over by not really understanding how best to approach it.

I know a lot of these questions will be answered by chatting with her...but I would like to feel a little less stupid before I do so.

So really - gift retail 101...please help....

Oh and to give you an idea of volume/numbers etc, so far I've sold nearly 70 items and revenue c£1500 in 2 months. Prints are £15-£25 depending on size.... and this is the kind of stuff. www.etsy.com/uk/shop/JoMcCallionArt

My understanding is that shops will expect sale or return, and probably more than 30%. See what they offer though, you may get lucky.

I really like the landscapes/buildings!! Beautiful work

Great work - I think you should have a look at www.artfinder.com and it might make you think about selling your originals for more than you make for selling prints.

There are no "firm" answers to any of your questions. There are no "norms".

Generally, the larger/more expensive, the more likelihood they'd want sale or return (where they buy first and then return to you if unsold) - some will pay when they buy and want a refund if they return to you, others will only pay once they sell. For some, you'll keep ownership until sold (i.e. you bear the risk of damage or loss) for others, they'll take ownership and bear the risks.

Again, generally, the larger/more expensive items, the higher the margin they'll want as they'd usually be slower to sell and take more shop space. You could be looking at them expecting margins a lot higher than 30%.

As for restrictions as to price they charge, or exclusivity etc., again, it's up to you to negotiate. And again, probably down to the size/price of what you sell. Also re exclusivity, you have to consider whether the shop will be the only one in a geographical area to sell your entire range, or whether you can have it restricted to just certain times, i.e. they can sell one product group exclusively but another shop can sell a different product group.

I think you're best just to go along and have a chat and see how it goes without making any firm commitments. Try to wrangle out of them what they are looking for. You really don't want to offer too high a discount/margin, or exclusivity, or sale or return if they'd be happy to stock without those downsides to you. Also, try not to get drawn into long term commitments as you need the first shop as a learning experience, so you need to be able to extract yourself from them quickly and easily to sell elsewhere. Probably good to play "hardball", i.e. don't offer stock without them buying it even if you have to offer to buy it back again if unsold (rather than sale or return), try to get margins as low as possible and don't even enter into any exclusivity etc at this early stage.

@user1497207191 - Wow - thank you. See I knew I was uninformed about retail - I had totally bypassed the sale or return thing.

So that has all been really useful - thank you so much.

I have sent her a message that it would be a great idea and that it would be great to chat about it.

Just trying to think if there is anything else I need to think about. It was always in the back of my mind to look at selling through some of the shops/cafes in town - we seem to have a ridiculously large number of gift/interiors and art gallery shops around....

And yes, you are right. No need to do exclusivity this early.

Blimey. I only just started drawing because my Yr 7 son's art teacher was supremely unimaginative setting lessons last summer....

I think sale or return. Sell at the Etsy price with commission for the seller.
BTW, I think your Etsy price is too cheap. Try putting them up for £20.

@lightyearsahead Thank you.

Re the pricing you are not the first person to say that. I kind of priced myself (I thought) along with Etsy norms.

Sorry - another probably stupid question. With Sale or Return are there time limits? So say the shop buys 5 prints. I take the money, it goes in my accounts etc etc. At what point can I safely "spend" that money (ie assume the shop will not come back to me 5 months later asking for a refund). Is there some retailer-supplier communication?

And so sorry - my only experience of retail was working in Waitrose during my A levels, which was some years back decades. I know about the insurance industry, HR and now Pupil Premium within schools...but the ins and outs of how stuff gets into out shops and the agreements made is...as you can tell... a mystery to me.

When I worked in bookshops, where we sold non-book items too such as cards, silver jewellery, badges, records and tapes (it was a long time ago), sale or return meant the supplier left a quantity of goods with us and came back after an agreed period, maybe a month or more. We'd then check what had sold, they would invoice us, and depending on sales they might top up the stock we held, or take the unsold goods away.

Thank you so much everyone. Much appreciated - feel much more comfortable going in to a discussion about it all now.

& @ittakes2 thank you for the artfinder suggestion. Am going to have a bit more of a look into that.

There's a useful bit on the Design Trust website that might help - www.thedesigntrust.co.uk/cost-price-wholesale-price-retail-price/

No advice but I love the boots print.

@VienneseWhirligig

No advice but I love the boots print.

Thank you. It is one of my favourites - and one of the ones that made me realise I really could do this art/drawing thing. (I only started drawing last July during lockdown. Before then I was in the "I can't draw for toffee" camp.

Oh and buy it now before I put my prices up!

How could you ever EVER think you couldn't draw?!?
Do you have any pictures of your pre-July drawings for comparison?
The ones on your website are stunning.

Congrats I love your prints.
My sil sells photos at a local shop, she does sale or return. She drops off the 'goods' then invoices them at the end of the month. She makes a good profit from it.

Your prints are lovely! I'd put the price up also - £20 / £25 given postage is free

Wow, your drawings are so beautiful.

@Scarby9

How could you ever EVER think you couldn't draw?!? Do you have any pictures of your pre-July drawings for comparison? The ones on your website are stunning.

Really, really couldn't. Hated art at school - gave it up as soon as possible. Then in the summer DS's art lessons were "take photos of 3 red things" and then "take photos of 3 blue things". He was Yr7! I was a little underwhelmed so I nicked the Yr7 project from the school I work at, which was to "Draw 20 things". We made a list of 20 random things to draw (something you are scared of, silliness, food, a superhero - that kind of thing) and the whole family did it. These were some of mine. The bottom left is "The Pope's Left Knee". No idea why that was in the jar...but hey...

My sister joined in. That may have introduced some long-lasting but good-natured sibling competitiveness...so I started maybe doing a bit more than a 1 minute sketch before tea....OK, I confess, I started looking at Youtube videos so my drawing was better than hers and a new passion was born.

Doh! Forgot photo of my "early" works...