Where do 'White People' come from? MN Historians, Researchers, Anthropologists, please come in.

[CantStayAsleep]

Forgive me, this may be a simple question. It's 4am, can't sleep and a million things have already raced through my mind. I need an answer to this and Google is flooding me with tons of information/articles that aren't getting down to the bottom line. Atleast I can't find the bottom line myself. So over to you MNers. Help me when you're up and can be arsed. Thanks

If Black people = African descent (as many forms state and a lot of people have said), I take this to mean Black people have African ancestry, regardless if it's dating 1 generation or 400 generations ago. So what is white descent? Where have White people descended from?

African people do have Neanderthal DNA but at a lower level than Europeans.

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/10/cheddar-man-changed-way-we-think-about-ancestors

It seems to be related to farming. Humans haven’t been white for very long comparatively. Very interesting. I love that they were able to sequence cheddar mans DNA. It’s incredible.

I’ll give those a listen CaveMum. I find Neanderthals so fascinating.

As far as we know Neanderthals evolved outside of Africa and had many different skin colours.

How is that true?
I mean ultimately don't all great apes share a common ancestor?

Also evolved outside of Africa well, we can say that about white people as well, I wouldn't describe it as evolving outside of Africa though?

Homo Sapiens originated in Africa but not Neanderthals or Denisovans. They evolved from a common ancestor who most probably left Africa at an earlier date.

@Dingleydel

I’ll give those a listen CaveMum. I find Neanderthals so fascinating.

Kindred by Rebecca Wragg Sykes is a fantastic book about Neanderthals for anyone interested

@Californiabakes
Thank you.

@Kendodd

Also evolved outside of Africa well, we can say that about white people as well, I wouldn't describe it as evolving outside of Africa though?

The differences between Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens are much greater than between white and non white Homo Sapiens. There are no Neanderthal fossils in Africa, only in Europe and Eurasia.

I think it's so interesting and I'm quite surprised that the general answer I've gotten is that everyone started from Africa. I didn't think this was well-known and I haven't seen it said in most places where all the racial arguments happen.

Why isn't this a widespread knowledge or am I the last to really know this?

Also, since we all originated from Africa, aren't we truly all ONE (I know, mushy cringe factor, sorry!)? Why all the fighting and division when "we are really all from" the same place.

Perhaps it's a VERY simplistic way of looking at it because of eons of migration and I'm sure, as a pp mentioned, the current culture of each group does make a difference but it's a really humbling thing for me to know. It makes so many things about how we see people insignificant or unnecessary.

Just musing out loud really but I'm enjoying the posts here.

@Californiabakes
How come you know all this?

It's great btw, I didn't mean to sound snippy.

I’m doing an MSc in Archaeology atm and one of my areas of interest is human origins, just to explain why i know some of this stuff. It’s a very fast moving area of research!

[quote Kendodd]**@Californiabakes
How come you know all this?

It's great btw, I didn't mean to sound snippy.[/quote]
You didn't at all sound snippy

Ha and I just cross posted to explain

Any other questions welcome btw. My dissertation is looking at palaeolithic diet and looking to see if there are any differences between hominim groups. There’s debate about whether Neanderthals, Denisovans etc are actually different species as theres evidence of Neanderthal/Denisovan and Neanderthal/Homo Sapiens interbreeding.

Also, since we all originated from Africa, aren't we truly all ONE
Well beyond that (and I know it is simplistic) but plenty of white British have some African ancestors much more recently, likewise black people with white ancestors. If you put men and women together, regardless of what they look like/where they're from, children will be the result.
I'm blonde with blue eyes, as are my parents and grandparents (well not all blonde and blue eyed but all white) I have African blood from the slave trade.

Every days a school day, looks like Neanderthals and homosapeans had a common ancestor in Africa, but that ancestor migrated before becoming an evolutionarily distinct species (I had thought the species diverged then migrated, and subsequent change were just adaptations)

Although (this is just my musing), if we categorise a species as able to breed and produce fertile young, were they even a different species? As they must have bred for the DNA to be present in modern humans. Any smarter people then me about that could explain?

I think some people are asking why, if we had common ancestors, are we/were we so different looking at various points. The answer is evolutionary “islands” - not necessarily literal islands but separations that meant one tribe wouldn’t breed with another. E.g. cavemen living in France wouldn’t breed with those in Africa, because of physical distance and the sea in the way. This meant that each gene pool evolved separately to suit the environment of that tribe and not the other. So the fact those two tribes were both descended from the mitochondrial Eve may mean they had the same origins, but they kept changing.

So yeah, apes may all share a common ancestor @Kendodd but then different apes adapted to different environments and some evolved into different kinds of sapiens - including Neanderthals and humans.

@Californiabakes

Any other questions welcome btw. My dissertation is looking at palaeolithic diet and looking to see if there are any differences between hominim groups. There’s debate about whether Neanderthals, Denisovans etc are actually different species as theres evidence of Neanderthal/Denisovan and Neanderthal/Homo Sapiens interbreeding.

I cross posted, but that's exactly what I was asking

Didn't Pangaea (the first one big continent) break up during the mesozoic era? So it can't really be related to human evolution.

Yes there’s a debate about whether they are different species. There are clear differences genetically and morphologically between neanderthals and moderns humans. We don’t have enough fossils of denisovans to know about their morphology.

It's a while since I studied this, but what I learned studying genetics was that, in the scheme of things, there is very little genetic difference between groups of people that we would categorise as different races, and that race is largely a social construct (which is not to say that it's not real, just that it's not particularly grounded in genetics). IIRC, the genetic diversity in humans remains highest within the continent of Africa, which means that if you were, for example, to compare the genetics of a black East African person with a black West African person, they would probably look more different to each other than if you compared a white European and a Japanese person. Despite this, we would classify the East and West African people as being from the same race and the European and Japanese as being from different races.

if you were, for example, to compare the genetics of a black East African person with a black West African person, they would probably look more different to each other than if you compared a white European and a Japanese person. Despite this, we would classify the East and West African people as being from the same race and the European and Japanese as being from different races.

This is really interesting

It doesn't take that long to go white from black - take the Ainu for example. They usually have olive skin and black/brown wavy hair - some are blond and have lighter skin. Most can get a tan, but humans have only been in Japan for 20000 years - their ancestors came from the south and their closest genetic relatives are the Andamanese who are black and are probably the closest modern people to the original black Asians.

The Ainu became white as a result of the cooler, cloudier maritime climate of Ice Age Japan and a more mixed diet rather than mostly fish.

In contrast, the now extinct (as of 2008) Yaghan people of Tierra del Fuego were black and did not wear much clothing despite the cold, cloudy climate since they mostly ate fish and seals.

There’s more genetic difference within the San population of Africa than in the whole of the rest of the world.