MLM what's the deal

[withmycoffee]

I've not ever been involved in MLM but I hear a lot of negative and scathing comments. I get how it works in terms of people signing up under people and the levels above getting a cut in every sale. But I'm still confused as to why it is considered so bad. Isn't it what Tupperware and Avon were doing decades ago? No one had a problem with them. Or were they not MLM? Other than people annoyingly trying to sell friends and family whatever it is that they sell (just say no) Why is it now considered so evil?

I consider some of the methods used to “recruit” others a bit out of order. I also don’t like the pressure some mlm people out on their friends and family to purchase products.

I don’t like that it seems to be mainly targeting of people who struggle to get a standard job because of issues like childcare, offers then the world ( hey guys I bought my own house in cash at the age of 25 while being a single mum, give me a message to find out how) and fails to deliver.

Because only something like 5% of the people doing it make any money.

They prey mainly on women, especially women who are disabled/have young children/can’t work for any reason.

The business model sets people up to fail. Selling isn’t the main part - recruiting is how people make money.

It’s basically a cult, and that’s never a good thing.

I'm not sure how Avon and Tupperware worked back then in order to compare. If Avon was, as I understand, putting a load of catalogues though doors locally, holding the odd product event and then taking a commission on any sales without any personal outlay then, in the days before online shopping, that seems OK.

The modern ones always seem to involve buying a load of product up front and then selling it to your family to claw the money back. Then once you've exhausted that little pool, you're kind of out of steam, despite being told you can earn thousands from it.

The only way you can earn money (as in more than a couple of pounds) is to recruit new sellers and you then take a percentage of their sales. So there's pressure to recruit friends and family, on the false promises that they will earn decent money.

MLM sellers are taught that "no" means "not now" so will contact you again and again trying to sell their produce, even when you've made it plain you are not interested. Surely we shouldn't be encouraging people to forget that no means no, whatever the context.

Some MLM sellers are making claims that two into people's weaknesses and have no scientific justification. For example one MLM tried claiming that their product cured cancer. I imagine if someone had actually produced a juice or a cream that cited cancer the NHS would want to be involved in getting out to the public, not leaving it to mum's at the school gate.

Their recruit marketing is aimed at the group's that have members that may be vulnerable (single mums with money worries for example) and use emotion laden vocabulary to pour on the guilt. "I fit my hours around my kids so I don't miss them growing up" and "I work when they're in bed so I can be a proper full time mummy" are examples I've seen.

Some MLM have dubious charity connections. One had a domestic violence refuge (a noble idea). But they are super selective about who they help and anyone who is offered a place had to fund part of their stay, including transport to Utah. I can't imagine many British DV victims are being supported by this service, but still they use it as a big selling point.

That's just my initial "why MLM are bad" roundup, I'm sure others have more examples.

@MrsTophamHat

I'm not sure how Avon and Tupperware worked back then in order to compare. If Avon was, as I understand, putting a load of catalogues though doors locally, holding the odd product event and then taking a commission on any sales without any personal outlay then, in the days before online shopping, that seems OK.

The modern ones always seem to involve buying a load of product up front and then selling it to your family to claw the money back. Then once you've exhausted that little pool, you're kind of out of steam, despite being told you can earn thousands from it.

Avon broadly is still as your first paragraph. Reps can buy up front (if there’s an offer for example) but don’t have to. The whole thing can be done with no personal outlay.

Don’t know about other businesses

They prey on vulnerable women and in some MLM's 97% of people don't earn a penny (and more than likely make a loss). Google different MLM's and their income disclosure statements to see the exact figures for each one.

I think the difference between the 'old days' of Avon ladies, tupperware parties etc and the modern era of JuicePlus, 'Younique', those weird Aloe Vera products etc is that although both are pyramid schemes and still, to me, a 'scam', (a) the products from Avon/Tupperware were reasonably good quality, sellable products albeit a tad overpriced once you accounted for the cut taken by the various levels of the pyramid/middle men, but it was possible to eek a small profit out of selling them if you were at the bottom of the pyramid if you worked hard at it (probably less of a profit than you'd 'earned' given the time you'd spent on it, but at least some profit) and (b) although the sales tactics could be aggressive (I remember my DM hiding behind the sofa from our local Avon lady when she called because she was so relentlessly pushy and some of the Tupperware 'parties' were the stuff of nightmares), it wasn't as pervasive as today because there was no social media, no mobile phones, it was mostly done by landline phone/door to door/selling to friends and family, and if one of them got a bit OTT about it you could just avoid that person, not answer the phone to them etc .

Whereas some of the stuff MLMers sell today is both absolute shite, particularly given with online shopping you can easily find much better skincare/fruit juice/make up, delivered to your door without the huge mark-up (and it isn't possible for the sellers to really make a profit even if they do manage to sell because they can only buy them from the company at a high cost), and also the selling is relentlessly in your face, they are taught to be constantly on facebook, twitter, whatsapp all the time constantly hawking their shit. Plus the fake 'lifestyle', the whole 'boss babe' thing is really pervasive and annoying and was never a feature in the 'old days', you know that anyone who really is making more than a tiny profit from MLM is only doing so by effectively scamming others - for me and most people I know it's more a minor annoyance and of course you can block/mute if it gets to be too much, but it can really negatively effect vulnerable or desperate people - not just the ones who get sucked in themselves but also those who don't realise it's all fake can get really down on themselves because they aren't 'living their best life', running their own company, driving a ferrari etc., which isn't really fair...

They're an absolute scourge. They make vulnerable women think they can earn money selling things, but the real wealth goes to the people at the top. Quelle surprise. They cut women off from their friends and family by forcing them to hard-sell and recruit. They should be banned IMHO.

I think less so in the uk but certainly some in the US the “company” requests an initial outlay eg “you must start with £1k of our miracle oils!”

I think a lot of women lose money because of that structure (unlike Avon for example which is not that bad). They’re persuaded that £1k at the start is a good start up cost and they’ll make it back in no time. Oh and then the Christmas special is out which they MUST buy because their customers will want those products too! It’s only £500!

The other issue I have is that MLM’s are a feminism issue. You rarely see men roped into selling leggings or oils and naff skincare.

MLMs tell a woman that she can have it all. She can have children, be a full time parent, and be her own boss and earn £££. But that is frankly unsustainable and not what we as women should be wanting. Why should we (assuming the existence of a spouse/partner/other parent to our children) be the main parent whilst also having to work? That isn’t empowering women, that’s quite the opposite.

I don’t want to end up in a position where I have a career that I run at awkward hours of the day and do all the parenting, whilst my spouse just has his career. That’s not empowerment, that’s oppression.

Hopefully something thinking of joining a MLM will stumble across this threat and be put off!

Some MLM also require you to pay for a tester/sample kits to let people try out. It’s all on the expectation that you will get loads of money back before long in profits. The reality is that before long you’ve annoyed and exhausted your friends’ and family’s goodwill for the overpriced and underperforming products. So then you end up with various products you bought that you have no use for and no income to balance it out against.