Seeking therapy is the quickest way to feel shit about yourself.

[TherapyTankedMySelfEsteem]

Looking for a therapist has been the most soul destroying experience of what has already objectively been a pretty tough year.

Is it just me?

Here is the run down:

1. I have been writing a lot in lockdown and I got in touch with a ‘poetry therapist’. I was really excited about the idea of having somebody read what I wrote and to be able to start the conversation from there. Turns out that poetry therapy is when you sit on the zoom with somebody, they give you a poem, and you have to give them an emotional response in real time. And no – I wasn’t allowed to pick the poems. And the only way in which would look at what I wrote is if I sat in session and read it out loud to her. Was I really expecting too much to ask for my own words to do the talking?

1. I corresponded with someone who listed psychoanalysis as the primary modality. She sounded good on paper – but then sounded really really uncomfortable on the phone when I said that I self identified as autistic. Also had a strange breathy voice that got increasingly offended when I sounded doubtful about someone doing psychoanalysis who only had a total of three years experience in any kind of mental health care

1. Corresponded with someone who sounded really nice on paper and said that she had open slots on Mondays Wednesdays and Thursdays. And then completely shut me down when she found out that I was out of her area. (In area people I interact with for my job - and don’t have time to travel to appointments in the next town - so I want a mainly virtual therapy thing).

1. Had a tentative date with someone for a first session. Set a date I preferred to talk by phone so that I could go out to take it – rather than worry about the kids walking in. She flat refused to do that (‘I need to see your body language’) and didn’t correspond further.

1. Found someone online. I slid out of the conversation after a light online stalking revealed that their main ‘thing’ was angels.

1. BetterHelp: I have just asked for a refund. I didn’t get to the phonecall stage with any of the therapists I tried. They looked nice on paper – but came across as just really not having time for the extra client. It’s just really dispiriting somehow to get matched with someone into the virtual chat room - and sit there like a lemon for days on end with no responses to what you say/only housekeeping responses.

1. 7 Cups - the person just did not talk.

I am coming out of this having wasted loads of time and really disbalanced myself by putting my vulnerabilities out there and getting no reciprocation or reassurance back.

It feels weirdly rejecty - like my face doesn’t fit and I’ve embarrassed everyone by showing up what a weirdo I am.

My basic ask is for an experienced, sensible, warm person to form a relationship with to speak regularly by phone to process demands of parenting/life etc.

How is it so hard to find someone like this? I am happy to pay and motivated to engage.

The whole thing feels like a big con. Like telling teens to ‘tell someone if you are struggling’ when you know CAMHS will triage and ignore them pretty much regardless of how distressed they are.

Being told that it’s ‘good to talk about mental health’ - when the truth is that you get ignored unless you happen to be in a very narrow band that fits into the kind of clients the therapists want.

@SingToTheSky - thank you - that would be kind

That totally sounds like I’m on commission or something 😂 I’m not obviously. I am so sorry you’ve tried reaching out and got nowhere, that’s really awful. The right therapist is the most important thing I think.

I really miss face to face sessions. I’ve cut down the amount of sessions as zoom just isn’t the same (was only once a month anyway due to cost), but I’m not stopping altogether, I’m holding out to be back in her office again, I value the help so much. I really hope you can find someone right for you

Or UKCP... or if you prefer more arts based approaches, there will be specific membership bodies

I’d hope (but know that’s not always the case!) that a good therapist would pick up any traits without needing to be taught. It may be worth - just from a compromise perspective- saying/showing ‘here are some things I do, what do you make of it?’ and seeing what they say. Would you be open to hearing a different perspective? Equally they should listen to yours as well but it should be a dialogue if it’s going to be effective...

It was definitely a struggle moving online/phone for many therapists. It’s not typically taught as part of training programmes and I know a lot of therapists who felt that if they can’t do it well, they shouldn’t be offering it. I know I’ve missed things I wouldn’t have missed if we’d been in the room together or I could have seen them and that’s a scary place to be in as a professional and , I imagine , as a client who may feel the therapist missed something - . I know it may feel like they are saying you aren’t the right fit , but in many ways it’s the therapist who isn’t fitting with the change in time (although I’d argue there’s not much training/research so it does make it difficult for people to adapt.... and there’s not much wiggle room for ‘mistakes’ in therapy!)

@WeavingWandering - about the relevance self-diagnosis ASD flat affect: I don’t cry and I don’t show upset in my face or tone.

So in the therapists’ defence - maybe it wasn’t obvious quite how upset I was - both coming into the conversations and with being shutdown abruptly.

I’ve done therapy before - and she said that it was jarring often to reconcile what I said and how I said it - my tone did not match the content.

Which might explain why I’m sensing a bristly response - that I’m not quite presenting how they expect and the confusion blocks off their empathic reflexes.

On Counselling Directory you can filter therapists by mode of contact, and only show those who will do phone counselling.

Incidentally, I'm autistic (diagnosed) and most certainly have facial expressions — both my own, and those I've learned to produce in the appropriate circumstances.

play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.replika.app

You could try that, might be better than some of those you described in your op.

@chickenKatsu - too relatable 😂😂😂

@idontlikealdi

you probably need to stop with the navel gazing.

Why do you feel the need to pay someone to validate your feelings?

Are you for real?

@crayoninthreebits I have face expressions too - I was being facetious. I’m known as a smiley and animated person. But they totally vanish if I am emotional ‘for real’.

I have learnt to ‘act’ sadness and worry for social reasons. So when my colleague came into the office to tell me terrible news about her son I made the right face expression to make sure she felt heard. But that was ‘about her’. There’s no point that I can see ‘acting’ for a therapist.

My own emotion about the news catches up with me several days later when I will go
to bed and stay there for 36 hours - kind of absent - not sad but not talking or eating or moving. Or for less traumatic things I might go hyper. Like batch cook an insane amount of food or get very absorbed into some other project and become very inflexible to anyone trying to divert me.

I’ve learnt to ‘forgive myself’ for being that way - not to feel monstrous at not crying at funerals or ‘lazy’ or ‘weird’ for the odd things that happen to me later.

But its an isolating way to be - that its hard for me to emote ‘with’ people.

And so I need therapists to understand that my emotions do the weird ‘jumping’ thing. That my distressed doesn’t look like what’s expected - which is exactly why I need someone ‘in my corner’ to support me with making sense of it - and to be there to pick up the pieces when the shock of things finally connects.

Because objectively a lot of shit has happened this year - I should be crying.

Mm, but it wasn't obvious to me when I read what you wrote that you were being facetious — certain self-diagnosed individuals sometimes have some very stereotypical misconceptions they like to lay claim to.

Totally agree that you need a therapist who understands that you won't necessarily be displaying the expected emotions in the expected way — perhaps try to find a clinical or counselling psychologist who specialises in autistic adults. As you're looking for remote therapy, you're not limited to local people, so you should be able to narrow it down.

I'd recommend mine, but she's buggered off for a bit too have another baby 🙄😂

You’re looking in the wrong places. Look on the BACP or UKCP directories. That’s where you’ll find experienced, accredited therapists. Sound like you’d benefit from person-centered therapy. With psychoanalysis the approach can be very hands-off and come across as ‘cold’.

Psychology Today won't give you a lost of people who are professionally trained and accredited. Whilst I'm not an expert, there's some terms that anyone can use and some terms or job titles that only professionally qualified and registered people can use. Professional bodies are a good place to start.

You're not alone in finding it hard to find the right person though. When I had PND a friend recommended someone they knew who was just starting out in this area as waiting lists were long on the NHS. When I spoke to them and looked at their page it became clear that they were a life coach style therapist who was into new age energies. Whilst they might have been a nice person, they were 100% not someone to professionally support someone through trauma.

How rude of her crayon :o

I meant to say (MN is being weird today, I keep losing posts and bookmarks etc?) I relate to the rejection feeling when trying to get help. I have been mostly lucky myself but the times I haven’t just felt so personal. I find it happens a lot with trying to get support for my DCs (older two autistic).

Just read the thread properly and I can’t get over the poetry therapist not welcoming your own writing. WTF. Glad you are finding it a useful way to express yourself. I wrote a lot in my teens and had a lot of creative therapies as an inpatient in the hospital school but have only written a few since (two of which were since starting with my therapist, which I showed her). I’ve still got one in my head for now but just can’t get the words out right - so frustrating.

I think part of this is that demand is swamping a lot of therapists at the moment. Not helpful for you, I know.
Possibly try looking at the Human Givens therapy register (if this is of interest). This tries to set expectations and 'plans' at the start of the relationship, and as someone with spectrum traits, this appealed (after 2 years of psychotherapy that just made me shut down in the end).
I completely understand the increasing reluctance to be vulnerable once you have set out your stall and been rejected. That said, I think you might have to make arrangements to be able to use Zoom until you can discuss a phone alternative - probably through someone else being able to look after your DC for 50 minutes (also very difficult at the moment.) Your needs are legitimate (from various perspectives).

I know Sing, how dare she!

OP try this — I've set up the search parameters to try to find relevant people but you'd want to tweak them obviously.

And yes, once you've found someone you like the look of, check they're on the relevant registers, whether that's BACP, UKCP, BABCP, NCS, BPS, HCPC or whatever.

@SingToTheSky

The poetry has actually really helped. It won’t stop coming actually. I never knew how
much I had to say

Like I said - I find it hard to get my emotions out authentically; that space between acting out what I feel is ‘expected’ and having a completely detached/orthogonal response. Turns out that after 40-50 redrafts of the same twenty lines I start to approach something which I can stand behind and say ‘this is how I feel’.

I’ve found it really interesting to ‘meet myself’ that way. But it is not writing that I would ever show anyone IRL - it needs someone detached but ‘safe’. So I was literally looking for someone that I could show it to and unpack it with me - why those were the lines that defined it for me.

Emote-on-demand-to-a-prompt really sounded like torture for someone like me - especially with the implication that I’d be pulled back into reflecting what people felt I was supposed to feel. Similar reasons hated being told to literally perform my emotions.

Therapy covers everything from somebody dangling a few crystals and Angel Cards to a highly trained, professional person bound by a strict code of ethics and answerable to a professional association.

Its an irony that when you need support , you don't feel able to make good decisions so.....I suggest have a think about your expectations and boudaries and look for a BACP registered therapist that works in your area. Then, trust your gut and take it from there.

The way you’ve described it would be perfect to take to a therapist as opposed to a self diagnosis- gives both of you a lot more to work with :)

I’d suggest looking at window of tolerance - it sounds very similiar to how you describe your responses. Obviously can’t help in a professional capacity (unless that is something you’d like to explore ) but happy to discuss via DM if you’d like a bit more on WoT.

I recommend BCAP too x

@randomer - I find it hard to know what I need.

I need a ‘person’ - Who is utterly discrete. Not judge my weird. Not be freaked out by what I say. Have their own insights. Not be an extra burden on me.

It’s really hard to know what combinations of acronyms equate to ‘I will sit with you while you navigate your shit - and catch you when you fall’.

Go to a practitioner psychologist (either a counselling psychologist or a clinical psychologist) registered with the BPS and the HCPC, who has experience working with autistic people and can work in an integrative way drawing from different theoretical frameworks. Psychologists tend to be trained in more different types of therapy than other therapists, and have more education in areas like ASD. Or if that's too expensive, look for counsellors who work in a humanistic, person-centred, or relational way — but make sure they have experience working with autistic people.

Op your last post has pushed me to post

‘I will sit with you while you navigate your shit - and catch you when you fall’.

I am a therapist and a fellow human being. You don’t need acronyms, say exactly that to prospective therapists. How they respond will give you an idea of whether they will fit with you.

Look up something like Counselling Directory, we are all online at the moment so it doesn’t need to be local. Choose a few that there’s something about them that speaks to you. Then ask each for a short free chat.

There’s lots of us. Take your time. You have eloquently said what you need. And a good therapeutic relationship will provide that. Don’t give up.

But also, OP, if you suspect you’re autistic, why not pursue a formal diagnosis? That could open up some support to you as well.