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Original poster

Neighbour thinks I am renting property to an ‘ex-offender’

53 replies

Eastie77 · 26/02/2021 20:41

I own a flat in a low rise building which I am currently renting to a young couple. Attempted to sell but buyer fell through and as we have moved to another property I have temporarily let it out.

The company that manage the building recently enlisted a firm to carry out a Fire Risk Assessment. On one page of the report entitled ‘Occupancy’ there is a list of different types of occupants (Elderly, Wheelchair Users etc) with Yes/No to indicate categories of people living in the block. Under the category Ex-Offenders there is a ‘Yes’.

One of my former neighbours has sent me an an angry e-mail stating that he is assuming that one of my tenants is the ex-offender as he knows most of the other people in the building and it is extremely disappointing that I’ve put everyone’s safety at risk.

So firstly: how on earth would the company who carried out the assessment know if someone in the building has a criminal record??
I'm wondering if it is even legal to publish this kind of irrelevant information in a report like this or if it could be a typo/error.

I have no idea if either of my tenants have a criminal record (I used a letting agency to find them) but if the ex-offender exists he/she could be anyone in the building, including one of the long established leaseholders my neighbour ‘knows’ and I have pointed this out to him. He has sent an unpleasant rambling response just repeating comments about the fact I've introduced criminality into the building.

Does anyone know if the fire assessment company could have discovered this kind of information...?

OP posts:
DropDTuning · 27/02/2021 21:44

@Lunariagal

dropdtuning

www.unlock.org.uk/policy-issues/key-facts/

Whilst I cannot quickly find the precise stats I quoted I have previously seen them on that site.

This link, that you yourself provided, completely contradicts the figures you stated earlier.

FuckyouBrennan · 27/02/2021 21:48

Wait how did your neighbour have your email address??

Lunariagal · 27/02/2021 22:09

Op, originally that statistic was on the home page of unlock.org.uk. this was sometime ago and obviously this has now changed.

What it does say, however, is that there are 11 million people in the UK. The adult population is roughly 55 million, so it's not hard to di the maths even if it's not split by gender.

My interest in this is that for a 3 year period I did voluntary work which brought me into contact with a women's centre which also dealt with the probation service and community payback. They also ran courses which were accessible to all and I did a few of them. As a result of some of the stories I've heard I wouldn't judge anyone. The vast majority of people with convictions are ordinary people who are trying to get on with their lives. It opened my eyes and changed my opinions and I am still passionate on the subject.

Going back to your situation, I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one person with a record. And that's their business, no-one else's. I would be tempted to point out that harassment is also a criminal.offence.

Lunariagal · 27/02/2021 22:20

@dropdtuning

It doesn't completely contradict them at all. It states that 11 million people in the UK have a criminal conviction. Given that there are approx 67 million people in the UK,.of which 12 million are children, then approx 20% of all people in the UK have convictions, without a gender split.

As I have said to the op in my previous comment, I have seen those figures quoted on the homepage. Obviously that has now changed.

MagdasMadHouse · 27/02/2021 22:46

www.unlock.org.uk/policy-issues/key-facts/

33% of men
9% of women

DropDTuning · 27/02/2021 23:10

@Lunariagal

dropdtuning It doesn't completely contradict them at all. It states that 11 million people in the UK have a criminal conviction. Given that there are approx 67 million people in the UK,.of which 12 million are children, then approx 20% of all people in the UK have convictions, without a gender split.As I have said to the op in my previous comment, I have seen those figures quoted on the homepage. Obviously that has now changed.

Er, if 20% of all adults have a criminal conviction, how do you calculate that 45% of men and 25% of women, which is what you stated, averages out to 20%?

Hmm
Lunariagal · 27/02/2021 23:15

@dropdtuning

I'm.going to bed thanks.

It was a statistic I once saw on their homepage. It's not there now. Have yiu ever considered a career with the cps?

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 27/02/2021 23:23

MrsTerryPratchett I never said that people with criminal records aren't entitled to be housed. But I do think that landlords might be entitled to know about certain convictions. Would you be happy to rent your house to someone who of ran a brothel from a previous address? Or was a drug dealer? Or was a violent rapist. People with criminal records have them for all sorts of reasons - I wouldn't necessarily care if my tenant had a tax avoidance conviction, but I would if he was a violent drug dealer.

Notabove25 · 27/02/2021 23:35

Hmm. A FRA does consider who the residents are and whether that poses any additional risks, but as you say, I don't know how the company would know, unless it's something the letting agent asks as part of the vetting?

I don't think there'd be a breach of GDPR and there's no personal data attached to this comment.

I wonder, could it be a way for the freeholder to get some funding, if they are housing ex offenders, as a way to mitigate the difficulties they can have finding housing?

DropDTuning · 27/02/2021 23:47

@Lunariagal you know there's nothing wrong with saying "I got it wrong, sorry." You don't have to keep digging.

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/02/2021 00:26

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

MrsTerryPratchett I never said that people with criminal records aren't entitled to be housed. But I do think that landlords might be entitled to know about certain convictions. Would you be happy to rent your house to someone who of ran a brothel from a previous address? Or was a drug dealer? Or was a violent rapist. People with criminal records have them for all sorts of reasons - I wouldn't necessarily care if my tenant had a tax avoidance conviction, but I would if he was a violent drug dealer.
Would you prefer your drug dealers, pimps and sex offenders homeless? Because they have to live somewhere. If not private rented (and let's be honest if you give landlords that information they won't) then the choice is government housing or no housing.

Or is there some other housing you would put them in?

Apart from the fact that the vast majority of sex offenders never talk to a police officer, much less get convicted. You probably have one on your street, fathers at school, on the bus or train with you. And you can't pick. You either allow criminal record checks or not. You can't say, "drug dealing isn't OK but fraud is". Landlords will just reject anyone with a record.

AIMD · 28/02/2021 00:37

Personally I’d just tell the neighbour you won’t be replying to any more communication about the matter and blank anything else he sends on the matter.

IndecentCakes · 28/02/2021 01:12

Could it not just be that potentially an ex-offender might live there? Or
maybe it's the neighbour and he's trying to throw you off the scent...

Sanchez79 · 28/02/2021 08:58

I don't think there'd be a breach of GDPR and there's no personal data attached to this comment.

In a small development it could lead to jigsaw identification, it has also been shared more widely than on a strictly need to know basis so could, potentially, form a breach.

If I did know who the offender was, I'd tell them about this report so they can complain and maybe take advice from one of the NGOs that works with ex offenders.

Also to whoever asked, no of course not all offenders have been to prison Hmm - do you really think teenage shoplifting, one time driving offences, students-caught-with-weed-at-a-festival offences etc land people in jail?

Some staggeringly naive people on this thread.

ApolloandDaphne · 28/02/2021 09:08

I would imagine there are many more people who would be termed ex-offenders whose offences were minor and dealt with by way of a fine or community payback than have been to prison. The vast majority of ex offenders pose no risk to anyone.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 28/02/2021 09:09

MrsTerryPratchett I think there are some crimes which are serious enough that they should be declared and the LL should have the choice to rent or not rent. It's their property, after all. I don't believe every conviction needs declaring but some, yes. You can't do anything about living by offenders you don't know about, so not a valid comparison imo, but I wouldn't knowingly rent a house to someone whose conviction meant they were likely to endanger my property or the people living nearby.
You think they have to live somewhere and I'm sure many other people think along the same lines, so maybe these people wouldn't be homeless because you'd be happy to rent to them.

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 28/02/2021 09:13

Personally I'd not reject an application from someone who had been convicted of selling a bit of weed or shoplifted as a teen. Those are minor crimes which don't need declaring imo, but someone entrusting you with their property ought to be told about major convictions.

mumwon · 28/02/2021 09:29

out of interest how would a landlord check if someone had a criminal record? & wouldn't you need the prospective tenants permission for a background check? & would it even be legal to deny someone accommodation because they have at some stage broken the law?
Asking out of interest
& how can this (daft bat) neighbour be so sure that another neighbour who owns their house (of whatever sex or gender) hasn't broken the law - ex-offenders aren't just working class druggies or gang members - they could be anybody of any class, wealth or education or job-including home owners!

MistakenAgain · 28/02/2021 10:53

I assume its generic.

Your housing association has not stated that they will not house ex offenders. I imagine the only places that might say they will not house ex offenders are possibly settings that are particularly for vulnerable residents e.g. retirement properties, people with learning/physical disabilities.

You could ask whoever manages the building about it.

I'd be curious with the neighbour and ask them if they have any specific concerns about the tenant please raise them directly with me.

LadyGAgain · 28/02/2021 11:01

I'd file a complaint with the fire assessment people. That's awful. What if your idiot neighbour was a vigilante? A number of years ago some equally idiot people took it upon themselves to identify the (wrong) paedophile that they thought lived in the area and beat him up.

It's genuinely dangerous to have passed on this irrelevant information. And reportable.

Original poster
Eastie77 · 28/02/2021 11:06

@FuckyouBrennan I'm on a residents email group that was set up when we all moved in to the building (new build so we were the first residents) so neighbours regularly email each other.

Thankfully my tenants are not on the that group as nosy neighbour has been busy speculating about who the offender is. Most of the original owner occupiers still live there, these are the people he 'knows' and can't possibly be the offender. I think 3 flats including mine are let out to tenants.

MrsHunt - I take your point and understand that no-one, including me, would want to rent out their property to a dangerous criminal. But allowing letting agents access to criminal records is a slippery slope and would result in all kinds of discrimination. And who would decide what kind of crime is 'serious' enough to refuse a tenant?

I have sent an email to the building managers as I think this is really unacceptable. Very selfishly, I am also worried that when I try to sell again this kind of information will obviously put a buyer off.

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 28/02/2021 11:14

I would suspect that it is a typo and the wrong box has been ticked. The reason it is on the form at all is because if ex offenders as a group are housed in a property then it affects the risk assessment.

Original poster
Eastie77 · 06/03/2021 14:00

Tenants have found out they are being gossiped about on the residents group and messaged to say they feel very uncomfortable:( They are a lovely young couple with a baby on the way and certainly do not need this. According to the nosy neighbour the information is not a typo, this is from the building managers. They still haven't responded to my message asking how and why the Fire Asssesment company got this info in the first place.

OP posts:
WeatherwaxLives · 06/03/2021 14:14

Your poor tenants Sad perhaps contact the FRA company directly?

If it is a typo I think I'd be tempted to loudly proclaim that the FRA company have told you it was a resident of number [nosy neighbour] flat. I wouldn't, but I'd be very tempted Grin

WeatherwaxLives · 06/03/2021 14:16

Oh, and I'd not be just asking the FRA if it was right or a typo - I'd be making it very clear to them they've started a witch hunt with their unnecessary sharing of personal information, and you expect them to fix it, pronto. Regardless of if it's a typo or not!

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