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Original poster

I've messed up at work - meeting tomorrow

69 replies

Drassage · 21/02/2021 19:22

I manage a team of 10 staff, with one other person directly below me who manages them day to day but I have overall responsibility.

One of them is called 'Kate' (not her real name). Kate came to us around 18 months ago. I don't have much to do with her day to day but I had heard very good reports about her work. She was 'one to watch' according to her direct manager.

I will admit I have let staff development/talent spotting slip this last year, partly due to Covid but also due to my own circumstances. Around a month ago another department contacted me to ask if they could borrow Kate for help with a project. I didn't think much of it and said if she was happy to help she could collaborate with them.

Last week I had a letter to tell me she is handing her notice in. I haven't had time to speak with her about it yet.

I've had a message from my boss today to tell me that Kate is moving to the other department. She's been offered a development role there and my equivalent is extremely impressed with her and her work. My boss now wants to know how we have managed to let her slip out of our department and why 'we' (she means I) have not spotted and developed her ourselves.

I don't really have an answer for her. I've looked back over my emails with the other department and on the surface it does look like I've just gone 'yeah whatever have her'.

I'm going to just have to hold my hands up and cop to missing this one aren't I?

OP posts:

6heartsforhumphrey · 21/02/2021 19:50

This wouldn't be considered messing up where I work. The fact that she has moved internally would be seen as a positive that the company is retaining their talent.

We did very little by way of development last year, there were furloughs and it was all hands on deck to ensure the company stayed afloat. This year however we are refocusing on our team development.

RedcurrantPuff · 21/02/2021 19:51

Hardly the most heinous offence. Just take it on the chin.

RippleEffects · 21/02/2021 19:51

Whist I agree its important to reflect on what could have happened, whats most important is to think what would happen next time.

Do you have a plan of action for the future?

Do you have any other candidates you want to put forwards for development now this is on the table, maybe who you could justify deserve or are more appropriate for development than Kate?

NameChange1666 · 21/02/2021 19:52

You’ve said you’ve let team development slip recently, so yes you probably have messed up slightly. Staff morale is often linked to development opportunities so you need to assess what you need to do now for the rest of the team.

pawncocktail · 21/02/2021 19:54

Where i work this is seen as encouraging development and it would be very strange for someone above me to query why x had gone into another department. The assumption being she was interested in being seconded, you let her be, and then it worked out that they ended up needing her permanently and she was interested. Unless your team has a glaring gap in the skill she has and is now up shit Creek, i don't see the issue here. For what it's worth i run a department of 150 people. I have people being seconded and then taken permanently all the time so i do understand the process. It sounds odd you're being called to answer for it. Also, her immediate line manager. Did she do anything beyond mentioning to you that the woman needed to be developed? Did she herself do anything to start developing her or are you expected to do all of that?

traintrain · 21/02/2021 19:57

I don't think you did anything wrong. Maybe you could have done more but thats a different thing and won't do your team any harm to review talent practices now.

The only tangible thing you had control over was whether to approve her secondment. Had you said no she would have left at some point anyway, having been pissed off by your refusal. You wouldn't have retained her.

Plumedenom · 21/02/2021 20:12

Lots of people are being kind but let's be realistic. Your boss is going to say "why did you not know that she was so desperate for progression that she felt her only option was to quit?". That suggests to me that you've not had a single 1:1 conversation with your team about their happiness and development for at least a year and rely on doing it all through their line manager, or not at all and it's all business. That's what I'd be preparing to answer, and answer it honestly so they can help you.

Namenic · 21/02/2021 20:13

Personally I don’t think it is v healthy to have all this internal competition in the company.

Your managee was obviously v talented and would probably have moved anyway if she really wanted it. sure, maybe it would have looked better if you had offered her some upward opportunity where you are, but if you put obstacles in her way, it would just have annoyed her and maybe she would have moved to another company. She is going to benefit your company by having experience in multiple departments - which is way better than her feeling unfulfilled and looking externally. I’m not a manager though - good luck, I hope they can reasonably see that it’s probably for the best.

notalwaysalondoner · 21/02/2021 20:16

I also think it’s weird that if someone was talented and had high potential you’d try to stop them moving around the company - that’s great for your team but terrible for the company as a whole, which is why it’s not normal practice. I’d highlight the extra opportunities she has had in the other team, maybe emphasise that being insular and not letting talent move around isn’t best practice, and discuss how as a department you can ensure you offer opportunities interesting to talent in future. I wouldn’t admit blame to be honest, yes, you could have been more switched on but you can’t control other people.

SirGawain · 21/02/2021 20:18

Sorry this has happened to you. You seem to have taken your eye of the ball. Your best bet is to put your hand up. If it’s a one off you will probably be ok if the rest of your work is fine.

poppycat10 · 21/02/2021 20:20

@Drassage

But she hasn't been retained in our department which is the issue. The argument is going to be we have lost her because I haven't spotted her for development and given her opportunities to progress. Which I haven't.

I think you argue that it's because of your mentoring and leadership that she has spread her wings and gained the skills to move on.

Your boss is very poor if s/he thinks someone moving on is a bad thing.

poppycat10 · 21/02/2021 20:20

@SirGawain

Sorry this has happened to you. You seem to have taken your eye of the ball. Your best bet is to put your hand up. If it’s a one off you will probably be ok if the rest of your work is fine.

This is nonsense.

poppycat10 · 21/02/2021 20:21

Your boss is going to say "why did you not know that she was so desperate for progression that she felt her only option was to quit

But she hasn't quit. She's moved to another department!

I don't get this. A good employer ENCOURAGES its staff to move on, doesn't moan at someone's manager when they do!

Violetroselily · 21/02/2021 20:21

Has she had an end of year review and if so, did you see it? Were there any agreed actions about development opportunities this year? At least that would show its not totally off your radar.

What tangible things could you have actually done differently? Have there been projects/programmes that you could have put her forward for, but didn't? If so, what is the honest reason for that?

What will you do differently now? Are there any other high potential team members?

It does sound a bit sour grapes tbh. Its not like shes leaving the company - an internal move is a good thing.

Plumedenom · 21/02/2021 20:22

Can we just clarify - when you said she handed her notice in - was it a notice to your department or she was planning to leave the company. i.e. was this a rescue job by the other department on hearing she was ready to quit, or did they poach her? Even if they did poach her, it doesn't look great that your direct equivalent spotted she was great while you never mentioned her. However I would say some managers aggressively push the talent of others as it makes them look like they are all over staff development, even if their team are just like any other. Only you can know if you dropped the ball here though really.

Mylittlepea · 21/02/2021 20:22

I would go to the meeting with your head held up high, we are all working in challenging situations right now (you don’t say if you are all WFH or if you are physically at work as a team - there is a difference, I’m finding hard to manage my direct reports remotely WFH)

Everyone has a responsibility for their own career development. It’s up to the individual to make plans and seize opportunities. Kate has done this and whilst it is a loss to your team, she is still in the company.

You mention that you have overall responsibility but Kate reports in to the manager directly below you. Perhaps it’s time to give that person autonomy to recommend anyone in the team for the development immediately to you as they see their daily work.

Best of luck, let us know how it goes. Honestly there are worse workplace crimes so please keep that in mind for your meeting, admit partial responsibility, apologise and tell your boss how you’d deal with the same situation next time x

poppycat10 · 21/02/2021 20:23

Letting someone work for a project for another team is a development opportunity. "Kate" took it, did well and is moving on. That should reflect well on you (even if it wasn't instigated by you).

therearefourlights · 21/02/2021 20:26

@Plumedenom

I agree with this.

OP, your acknowledge you haven't been focused on the development of your team. It's forgivable, but you know, nail, head.

You haven't been focused, she has clearly been excelling for 18 months and not being noticed by you, the only person who can recommend her for the development team, despite the fact that get direct line manager has provided you with very positive feedback about her.

Yes, I would agree that you let this one slip. It's not a capital offence, everyone is human, and I think you are best acknowledging it and -here's the bit you need to have in hand for tomorrow, get off Mumsnet and do it now - HOW IT HAPPENED AND WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO DIFFERENTLY IN THE FUTURE TO PREVENT IT HAPPENING AGAIN.

They will be looking for humility and reassurance it won't happen again. If you did do anything to encourage her, mention this. If not never mind.

Good luck :)

NoKingDingaLingTitsInAbsentia · 21/02/2021 20:27

There should surely have been discussions between departments before her apply for a job there/them offering her a job there?

You always run a big risk seconding someone out, they rarely return home unless they aren't good!

LawnFever · 21/02/2021 20:29

@poppycat10

Letting someone work for a project for another team is a development opportunity. "Kate" took it, did well and is moving on. That should reflect well on you (even if it wasn't instigated by you).

I completely agree, she’s not left the company and has only moved to another department on another project

lachy · 21/02/2021 20:33

I'm in a similar situation to "Kate".

I'm on a secondment where I've absolutely flourished. I've made real positive progression in my role for the organisation and I've been recognised for it whereas my line manager for my substantive post was totally disinterested in my development and progression.

Not saying that you @Drassage are disinterested but as a people manager you should know what is in your team's PDP's and support these, whether you conduct them or they are done by your team leaders.

user1493494961 · 21/02/2021 20:36

I also think you seem a bit 'hands-off'.

snoopy8 · 21/02/2021 20:40

I think you can say that you encouraged her development by letting her move to another department to work on a project. Imagine if you hadn't, and she'd been unhappy and left the company because of it, you could be in the shit for stopping her doing something in another team.

I'm sorry you're feeling crap :-/ perhaps there should be an internal policy whereby another team can't poach staff without some discussion beforehand.

Let us know how it goes and I'm sending a hand hold!

Lifeaintalwaysempty · 21/02/2021 20:44

You have one person inbetween, isnt that the person who should’ve been shouting to you about how great she was, and pushing you on add her to the development track?
If you manage her manager I wouldn’t expect you were heavily involved with her on a day to day basis and it wouldn’t be too if your radar (especially in a pandemic)
If her manager did so that and you took no notice that’s different, but it sounds like her own manager maybe needed to be invested and manage upwards to make sure you were aware that she was a prize asset and treated accordingly.
Don’t beat yourself up, she didn’t leave the business, you gave her an opportunity that it turns out she feels is a better fit.

Jackie2022 · 21/02/2021 21:01

Just going to be blunt - you fucked up, you can’t really talk yourself out of this one so just own up. Explain to your manager how you thought staff development wasn’t a priority after the pandemic - presumably your reasoning is sound.

It will look better if you stress that staff will be a priority going forward and you endeavour to learn from this. I’m sure you weren’t a manager straight from the womb (if you were, it explains how inept you are!), so think back to when you were an employee with an unsupportive manager and try to be better.

Realistically if you don’t change, you will be managed out of your role and your team’s line manager will replace you.

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