How much alcohol is unreasonable?

[CrazyFoxLady]

So... I've just nearly finished my 2nd bottle of wine and wondering how unusual that is? Not a regular event but quite standard for a Saturday night.
By rights, should I be unconscious by now? Or is this something we are all doing right now?
Quite impressed that I can still type tbf... sending love and hugs to all that need it right now. Albeit slightly alcohol induced ones

@VinylDetective please can you link to the advice you say AA gives in terms of it being safe to stop drinking suddenly without the proper support if you are physically dependent? This is what is says on the drinkaware site:

Important: Get medical advice before you stop drinking if you have physical withdrawal symptoms e.g. shaking, sweating, nausea before you have your first drink of the day. It can be dangerous to stop drinking too quickly without proper support if you are experiencing symptoms of alcohol withdrawal

www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/drinking-habits-and-behaviours/am-i-alcohol-dependent

I don't drink, so if I drank two bottles of wine I would be pissed but not unconscious.

I think if you want to feel anything other than slightly fuzzy you would be going over the government guidelines, I don't think that's a problem a few times a year, if you give your liver time to recover and it's not impacting on your life, but on a weekly or more basis it's going to damage your body even if it's not damaging your life in any other way. You wouldn't be alone though because we are a nation of social drinkers, heavy drinkers, binge drinkers, daily drinkers and functioning alcoholics for the most part. I'm made to feel very odd for not drinking socially. When I tell new people they look at me like I've grown two heads. Most people I know drink like you do, the functioning alcoholics I know drink about that but more often (3-7 days a week, with a drink of some kind every day).

For AA either you’re sober or you’re not. They’re quite clear that recovering alcoholics can’t tolerate alcohol in any quantity which is why even sauces containing even homeopathic amounts are vetoed. AA members go cold turkey.

A lot of AA members go through a medical detox first though

@VinylDetective

For AA either you’re sober or you’re not. They’re quite clear that recovering alcoholics can’t tolerate alcohol in any quantity which is why even sauces containing even homeopathic amounts are vetoed. AA members go cold turkey.

So you believe it's safe for physically dependent alcoholics to go cold turkey safely? I presume so as you said they were 'especially' safe to do so earlier. If you have a quick google and check any medical advice re alcoholism you will see that you are wrong. That sounds blunt but it's factual.

So you believe it's safe for physically dependent alcoholics to go cold turkey safely?

Having seen someone who drank two bottles of wine and half a bottle of vodka a day go cold turkey I have no reason to believe it’s not safe.

@VinylDetective

So you believe it's safe for physically dependent alcoholics to go cold turkey safely?

Having seen someone who drank two bottles of wine and half a bottle of vodka a day go cold turkey I have no reason to believe it’s not safe.

It's never a good idea to use anecdotal instances when faced with medical evidence and advice. I went cold turkey from another addiction and didn't come to serious harm doing so - that absolutely doesn't mean that my decision (misguided at the time) was safe, wise or should be recommended to others.

Of course you're entitled to any opinion you wish to hold, but when it is medically wrong it's irresponsible to state it as fact.

If you read up on it, even with a simple google search, you'll see that it is not considered safe by medical professionals. Anecdotal instances don't combat medical evidence.

So @VinylDetective the advice on the NHS website that says

If you're dependent on alcohol to function, it's recommended you seek medical advice to manage your withdrawal

is wrong?

@AubergineDream Re. the two heads thing (in response to you not drinking). How do you deal with it? just shrug it off? Note to OP, there are no other questions or concerns I have about not drinking... I was probably drinking half a bottle night, shared with OH. I thought I enjoyed it. I didn’t realise how crappy it was making me feel!

The quitting cold turkey is the idea proposed by Alan Carr, too. He Claims it is safe. Not saying he is right, just that this is his approach. Perhaps there are stats on this? Eg safe for (almost all) people, but not absolutely everyone!

This study in Spain found that 6% of those patients admitted with withdrawal symptoms died.

academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/45/2/151/134927

@pinkearedcow interesting, thanks, so of 436 patients who were hospitalised in 539 episodes (Ie repeat hospitalisations) owing to alcohol withdrawal, 6% perished. We now need to discover how many people (percentage wise) end up in hospital in the first place, when they go cold turkey. Those stats may not exist, since who reports their cold turkey endeavours in the first place?

I mean, who reports cold turkey if it goes smoothly, with no issues!

I don't want to spoil the fun but two bottles for one person?

I think this is a heck of a lot. It's not normal by any standards.

I would be absolutely trollied if I drank that amount.

I think you should try to cut down.

@Jumpalicious

I mean, who reports cold turkey if it goes smoothly, with no issues!

Nobody. Certainly none of the millions of recovering alcoholics who just stopped buying drink and got on with being sober.

Sometimes people die in withdrawal. It is not recommended by any addiction agency nor the NHS.

I was in A&E recently and chatting to a man there. He was drinking 3 bottles a day and went cold turkey as his wife was expecting their child. He had a seizure (which can be fatal) so he was put on withdrawal medication.

Nobody. Certainly none of the millions of recovering alcoholics who just stopped buying drink and got on with being sober.

You mean the half a bottle of wine a night drinkers? They're not considered physically dependent.

If you're drinking extremely high levels of alcohol, for e.g. a bottle of gin 70cl a day, you're consuming 28 units a day. 196 units a week. That's where you're in very dangerous territory.

There are a lot of people in AA who are not or were not ever physically dependent in medical terms but they like AA and it's easy for them to give up - because they're not alcoholics. Sure they recover easily!

@typicalvalues

Nobody. Certainly none of the millions of recovering alcoholics who just stopped buying drink and got on with being sober.

You mean the half a bottle of wine a night drinkers? They're not considered physically dependent.

If you're drinking extremely high levels of alcohol, for e.g. a bottle of gin 70cl a day, you're consuming 28 units a day. 196 units a week. That's where you're in very dangerous territory.

I defined what I meant a few posts ago. Maybe RTFT?

@Bumpsadaisie

I don't want to spoil the fun but two bottles for one person?

I think this is a heck of a lot. It's not normal by any standards.

I would be absolutely trollied if I drank that amount.

I think you should try to cut down.

Did it in my student days with a few drags of a joint thrown in. Went green and vomited my guts up, but was never what you'd consider an alcoholic, by any definition. I was just young and didn't know how to pace myself so to speak.

I defined what I meant a few posts ago. Maybe RTFT?

Have read the full thread. I missed anything from you. Please repost.

Nobody. Certainly none of the millions of recovering alcoholics who just stopped buying drink and got on with being sober

Of for God's sake Vinyl, people can and do die from the effects of alcohol withdrawal. Why would there be so many warnings about not giving up without support if physically addicted if this was not the case? I don't know why you can't accept the facts.

Personally I would find it really helpful to have a proper understanding of risk. I understand the government guidelines, but is it really high risk if you drink 2 bottles in one go on a Saturday and nothing the rest of the week?

@pinkearedcow

Nobody. Certainly none of the millions of recovering alcoholics who just stopped buying drink and got on with being sober

Of for God's sake Vinyl, people can and do die from the effects of alcohol withdrawal. Why would there be so many warnings about not giving up without support if physically addicted if this was not the case? I don't know why you can't accept the facts.

Yes 6% according to the survey you yourself posted. Which was based on hospitalisation. Not overwhelming, is it?

It depends on your weight and sex and the amount of units daily that you are consuming. That's how they guage how much librium to put you on. They probably won't put you on withdrawal meds unless you experience withdrawals - perhaps in the morning or throughout the day. Also, they take into account the amount you're drinking daily. If you're only drinking 2 bottles of wine at the weekend, have never experienced withdrawals, they won't need to medicate you to come off it. If you're small in stature, female and drinking at least a bottle of wine a night, they probably will medicate you while withdrawing.

@allycat4

Personally I would find it really helpful to have a proper understanding of risk. I understand the government guidelines, but is it really high risk if you drink 2 bottles in one go on a Saturday and nothing the rest of the week?

Not particularly, no.