Any senior-professional Mumsnetters to advise?

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I’ve name changed for this as don’t want to be linked to my long and detailed posting history!

So this isn’t one specific incident but I wondered if any Mumsnetters in senior career roles had any advice...

Briefly - I find myself in a senior leadership position at an age/stage of career which is fairly early to be in such a position in my sector. I had a baby at the start of the pandemic, and when she was a few weeks old saw this inter-departmental, all-organisational position advertised, consulted friends and line manager and colleagues in my department and they encouraged me to apply. I applied as I have always been fairly ambitious and interviewed in the first lockdown with an 8 week old on zoom and got the job.

Since then, and since I took up the role on return from maternity leave last summer I find myself increasingly talked over/feel a bit dominated by a few of those I need to engage in this role - and in the vast majority of cases they happen - in my sector - to be 15-20 years ahead of me in years and achievements, often although not always, male. As an example - this lockdown as I juggle baby and reception age son at home with FT work - I’ve been the only one at that level of meetings etc to be working flexibly and requesting boundaries around work etc.

I figured out I was feeling a lack of confidence and assertiveness and did a very valuable leadership course over autumn. I also sought mentoring but mentor assigned ended up having no time at all for even a meeting. I am surrounded by a warm friendly loving department but this role isn’t departmental- it’s another thing altogether.

Does anyone have any particular advice or top reads to suggest on generally dealing with imposter syndrome, lack of assertiveness and confidence in such a situation?

Till now the difficulties I have encountered seem largely to be -

1. People believing my role should not exist in this organisation
2. People believing someone different should have been given the role
3. People suggesting giving me the role was good for the organisation for making visible female BAME people in leadership
4. Interpersonal politics between people and departments that I seem to encounter and figure out day by day (this is part of development I know)
5. Numerous pushbacks at various stages and
6. Senior level meetings where three particular individuals - two men one woman - all much more senior and highly accomplished and respected - end up speaking over me.

I’m very driven, motivated and a really hard working person so I’m very willing to listen to any advice or perspectives or even general tips and tricks to use at meetings or books to read! The leadership course definitely was useful on handling negotiations etc. Just feeling a bit overwhelmed and whether indeed a mistake was made in appointing me!

Thanks in advance:)

Stop being nice. Be more of a dick.

People speak over you? Don't stop speaking, keep talking, more loudly. Make damn sure you are still speaking when they finally run out of rude steam. Get a bit school marmish. Tell them off sharply "I was still speaking Gavin."

Mute them on zoom. Demand people do hands up and nominate a meeting lead/chair/facilitator to let people talk.

Never explain why you are unavailable. You could be in a meeting with the chairman or doing a media interview or feeding a baby. Nobody needs to know which. Top people are frequently unavailable.

They need to be talking about how you are a difficult woman, a bit of a ball-breaker, teensy bit scared of messing with you. You have a double disadvantage being younger and female. You have to be more fierce to be taken seriously.

Do not try to be most liked, least bitched about.

Do try to be most respected, least fucked with.

Mentoring is great when you need someone to tell you what you should do, but coaching is absolutely invaluable at a senior level for developing the skills to figure this out yourself.

Look for an executive coach, ideally someone who is female and BAME. They’ll be able to do a lot with you around why you feel as you do, but will also be able to role-play various scenarios that you’re encountering.

If you have a local professional institute (I’m not in the UK so don’t know the names of any but a management institute/institute of directors type of place that has an exec coaching course) they often have student exec coaches looking for clients to build up their CPD hours.

Be clear on your own objectives and your own brand as a leader. Go into every interaction with a set of objectives for the meeting/conversation. So long as they are met who cares if they think you are a token. Let results speak for themselves over time. People don't have to like or respect you immediately. Work towards objective results where even the most belligerent they will have to begrudgingly accept you get the job done.

Behave as you wish to be seen, wish to be spoken about behind your back. React as if you were an actor playing the role of what you have chosen your "brand" to be: stay in character.

Wow thanks and I so wish I could be as assertive as that as the first reply says ! Still useful to know what to aspire to. The leadership course did mention the value of coaching - including distinctions between mentoring and coaching . wonder how I go about this ... but will look into it.

Have a good think about the following OP...
With regards to your first 3 points about your difficulties, are you assuming this to be the case, do you believe this is what people think, or has this actually been said to you by any individual(s) ...???

One of the niggling issues here is also I think a giant dollop of imposter syndrome. The organisation has at least 5 highly senior and respected People with accolades enormously more than me who could have ben appointed - and who may have handled these issues better. Genuinely believing I deserve this appointment and I bring something to this role that has distinction and value would also help me I think. Worth me thinking about that too.

Yes those things have been said to me to my face.

Have a look here

Julie might be helpful for you.

I think - like with most things in life - it’s not a black and white case of whether it’s either my imposter syndrome in my head - OR people being a certain way. It is likely to be a mix of both things so I should aim to tackle this in a few different ways perhaps ...

Hi OP.

1-3 you need to ignore. Do your own thing and be confident and polite. Some people will eventually recognise your ability, some won't. That's ok, not everyone needs to.

4-5 are pretty common in any senior position. I would continue doing your thing and don't get disheartened.

6 you need to get out of your head that just because of your age you're worse/less worthy/less experienced/less respected than them. Don't make this your starting point, believe in yourself, position yourself as equal and most importantly present yourself as such to them, respectfully, but confidently.

It isn't easy, but you'll get there.
It sounds like you need to work on your assertiveness and confidence. You'll be just fine, do not let others affect your self esteem, protect yourself from it. Be calm and collected and also very clear in how you direct others and delegate. What I've learnt is that the most respected people are firm, confident, decisive but also human and compassionate and it's all about striking the right balance.

Good luck 🍀

Look up executive coaches on LinkedIn.

Comparing to fitness training: a coach is paid by the hour to advise you on how to train towards a goal given your exact circumstances, adapting according to results. A mentor is like your older mate who has been playing the sport for years and gives you tips and moral support for free.

1. It's not you, it's them.
2. Don't underestimate how difficult it will be to resolve.
3. Keep your LM informed and ask for their support.
4. Document everything. Force decisions to go through formal decision making channels do objections can be aired.
5. Keep records of everything that might be construed as bullying or obstruction.
6. Find some emotional support to bolster your resilience.
7. Keep believing in yourself (see 1 above).
8. Look for another job just in case your position becomes untenable (see 2).

Speak early in meetings so that you’ve done it and don’t end up fixating on it.

Practice difficult conversations out loud in the shower so the words come easily.

I find having a ‘professional persona’ - different clothes, make up, jewellery helps me shift into Director mode and away from mum. It’s a bit artificial but helps me.

Agree with don’t explain yourself.

You’re obviously good at your role to have progressed so quickly and you need to remember that. But the return from maternity leave and a dose of impostor syndrome can crush self confidence (speaking from experience). So get some help, speak to HR and as others have said, get an exec coach.

Congratulations on your brilliant job and career progression - and your baby!
Do you have really clear objectives for your role? Could be worth creating a brief plan of your top priorities and also developing a strategy around your top stakeholders, ideally meeting with them regularly to listen to their priorities and identify areas where your objectives align and brief them on yours. If any seem constructive, you could discuss with them your ideas for increasing the impact of your role.

I agree with others on not feeling obliged to share why you need boundaries or only have limited availability. I also agree that some of your barriers are assumptions - and either way outside of your control. I'd keep your focus on the objectives for your role and building stronger working relationships.

Coaches can be good at helping you identify what is in your control and what steps you intend to take next.

Yes, I agree with a pp that you should ignore those comments. Do you have any relationship with the who appointed you/interviewed you for the position? What did they see in you? You were obviously an exceptional candidate. Feedback is useful in both negat and positive situations.

Yes, look into coaching and spend time choosing the right fit for you.

Check out the Aspire leadership community. They offer mentoring to women moving into senior positions and also run seminars etc. I acted as a mentor for them on 2 separate occasions and my mentees found it very useful. Mentors are usually women already in senior positions in a wide range of industries.... Worth a look

Remind yourself that just by being in the role you are showing other women that it can be done, and that your company values (bame) women.

Maybe your ideas are fresher and newer, senior people don’t always lead innovation, often they block it.

Practise with your dp on talking over people.
Sometimes it just has to be done.

Be your own cheerleader !

Well done OP. You asked for ideas of things to read:
Viv Groskop - How to Own the Room (also a brilliant podcast)
Tara Mohr - Playing Big
It’s not you, it’s them. But these will both give you strategies to deal with them.

Wow this is all exceptional advice. When at my laptop tomorrow I’m going to make a list out of all this and chase up the particular things you’ve all mentioned including coaching. This is is all very useful thanks so much.

I've been exactly where you have described! I ended up in a very visible role quite unexpectedly and I had to learn how to survive in that world. I had it exceptionally tough as a BAME female 30-something year old. I have one word of advice for you: a life coach.

I was once on a panel with some very aggressive, loud, senior people who kept talking over me. I was so upset, I cried all the way home on the tube. I had a coach who I met every week, and I cried through half the session, but at the end of it I had a plan to work towards. She gave similar advice to some of the PPs, and the structure/plan she set for me was very useful in future meetings and panels. You don't need a mentor, you need a coach.

You’ve described me! Down to exact demographics! Seems coaching is really important - will look into it very seriously.

@Navigationcentral feel free to DM! I am always happy to lend an ear, or advise where I can!

Without wishing to contradict everything that's gone before, I would encourage you to think less about changing your work persona and more about making your strengths work for you and not letting your weaknesses get in the way.

For example, if you're not an aggressive, talk-over-everyone, lead-the-conversation type then trying to adopt this style probably won't work for you. But perhaps you are really good at cutting through all the nonsense and summarising a problem or a solution in really simple terms. Or maybe you're great at asking challenging questions that steer a conversation out of a rut and sparks a lot of new ideas. I would say it doesn't matter if you only say one sentence in a meeting, if it's the sentence that changes the course of the conversation or makes the decision better.

You need to work with your strengths and maximise these, rather than trying to behave in a way that's unnatural for you.

In the same way, if you're not getting an opportunity to speak there are many ways to address this. You could try and play them at their own game and refuse to stop speaking but you could also approach this in other ways. If there is a particularly bad offender, you could try speaking to them outside of your meetings and explaining what they are doing - you could frame this as feedback for them or approaching them as someone you want advice from, depending on what you think they would respond to best. They will probably modify their own behaviour and may even become an advocate for you in the room if someone else won't let you speak.

You have earned this role so you clearly have the right capabilities to perform well in it you just need to work out how to use them! Be authentic and don't try to be something you're not.