Breastfeeding nightmare. Low supply, poor latch, now thrush

[EggBobbin]

Please help. I’m in such a hole about feeding my 15 day old baby. I can’t talk about it without crying.

Baby was early term and low weight (5lb 2oz, 38 weeks). Has a small, weak mouth and a shallow (excruciating) latch. The plan, as per LLL webpages was to not bother working on latch and build up supply until baby reached due date/got stronger and then try to breastfeed exclusively. We were giving formula top ups due to jaundice and low birth weight.

I was feeding occasionally/at night but I got such awful sores all over my nipples I exclusively expressed for 4 days. During this time I discovered my supply is low. By day 10 it should be roughly 750ml but the maximum I ever expressed was 400ml- this involved expressing 2hrly on a 24h cycle and is simply not sustainable for me mentally or around my older kids’ needs.

I’m on fenugreek and porridge, also oat milk milkshakes. We have hours of skin to skin.

Since last week baby has had this yellow plaque along her gum. It was swabbed and the swab came back negative for anything at all but we started thrush treatment which although initially looked to clear it up now seems less effective (4th day of treatment).

Once the swab came back negative as she was at her due date I tried to breastfeed again and after 4 feeds I’m right back where I was with angry black blood blisters on both nipples, it hurts to wear a bra let alone continue feeding.

I’m seeing a lactation consultant today who has suggested I may have insufficient glandular tissue (A cup). I’m considering Domperidone but not sure if there’s much point if we can’t actually latch.

I just feel so broken. It’s stripping all the joy out of this time but I don’t know what to do or how to stop feeding or if I want that. Surely it shouldn’t be this fucking hard.

Yesterday I really laid off the pumping schedule and only expressed when my breasts felt full and I got less than 300ml. Surely Domperidone won’t double my supply.

Guess I’m hoping someone who has slept more than me can unpick what the main problem is and give me some advice

Had the baby been checked for tongue tie ?

If it's latch is wrong you milk supply will not be stimulated

@Oldraver yes we’ve had numerous midwives, HCA’s, GP and lactation consultant watch feeds. Baby sticks their tongue fully out of mouth.

The latch will not improve until baby is significantly stronger, it’s not an issue with positioning etc.

Congratulations OP and sorry to hear it’s been so hard. I was going to ask about tongue tie as well.

My DC’s TT was missed by multiple midwives, health visitors, even our GP, until I saw an IBCLC who spotted it. They all said I didn’t have enough milk and would have to give formula (which wasn’t actually the case). DC was losing weight and feeding was excruciating as well. Having her TT snipped changed everything.

Oops cross post

Thrush can be difficult to treat and makes feeding painful for the baby. Have you been given treatment for your nipples as otherwise thrush will be passed back and forth (my HV said it's quite common for GPs to fail to treat the nipple).

I’ll ask them to check again today. If that would fix everything that would be incredible but I don’t have much hope.

DH is really losing patience with me being so upset and I don’t know what to do. I’m worried I’ll be stuck expressing forever as I’ve stimulated supply to the extent I can’t just stop feeding but neither can I breastfeed- I cant pump in a cafe ffs though

It really doesn't matter if baby has formula - you're being way too hard on yourself. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. The important thing is that baby gets the nutrition they need and are not losing weight.
It sounds way too painful for you to continue.

Get some bottles (I recommend Dr Brown’s) and some formula (I recommend Cow and Gate), start feeding your baby, put a tight bra on and get some ibroprufen ready and don’t give it a second thought.

Don’t be a martyr to it, you tried your best. Don’t do it to the detriment of your own mental well being.

Sorry you are having problems.

Pumping does not tell you anything about supply. I am still BF my DD and have never been able to express 1 drop, and never used a pad. Yet baby was EBF until solids.
Expressing will be promoting your supply until baby can latch, but have a think about whether it is worth persevering or not. It’s not worth ruining this precious time over.
BF is great, but if it’s this hard it might not be worth it.
It’s very hard with pumping to mimic the cluster feeding baby would be doing at this time, DD once fed for 11 hours straight. With sore boobs that would be horrific.
Don’t be a martyr to it. Much as I rate BF over FF, it really doesn’t matter.

I'd use shields. if they can take a bottle then shields will help, theyll make it less sore for you and allow stimulation of supply. This is the worst part, if you can keep going feed by feed it will get better.

My baby was a week earlier than yours, though 1lb heavier, and he was totally unable to latch due to not being strong enough . I pumped for 6 weeks, was in agony with blocked ducts and oversupply, and was miserable. Truly miserable.

He had a posterior tongue tie, got it snipped, made no difference. I went to a private lactation consultant, she said he wasn’t going to latch anytime soon so I could either keep pumping or go to formula. I got formula, and got rid of the pump, and felt so much better. Baby was equally as happy on formula.

Basically, what I’m saying is, do what’s best for your mental health. That’s what’s best for your baby.

@Zofloratheexplorer yes we both have thrush treatment

Congrats on the baby. Sorry that you are you having problems. I had a small baby with a small mouth and weak latch who was not good at breastfeeding in the first few weeks too (and I am an A cup). Agree that pumping is no reflection of milk supply. I found the American website Kellymom useful for breastfeeding tips. One of the thing I was doing wrong was how I was holding the baby when breatfeeding, I was letting the baby’s body flop down, but by lifting her nappy up in line with her head it helped her feed better. Lansinoh, being topless a lot and breastshields also helped my blistered nipples. It all suddenly clicked one day when the baby got better. Also ignore your husband. My husband was similarly annoying so I just used to ignore him (by saying yes and then doing my own thing depending on energy levels, or telling him he was part of the problem and affecting my milk supply. Good luck

Sorry meant to say breast shells (not shields) to stop anything touching your nipples, and meant baby got bigger, not better!

We’be tried shields last week before ceasing feeding and baby just didn’t get along with them, I suppose I could try again now we’re at due date.

We are combination feeding and baby is gaining weight on probably 60:40 EBM:FF.

How do I stop or make it so I can express milk in the evening not mid morning. I can’t do this to the rest of my family and I’ve been in tears since about 8 last night, this isn’t healthy. I’m worried the lactation woman later will resalky strong arm me into keeping going and I suppose I do also wonder if I should try domperidone before quitting

I'm very small chested A cup and my breast didn't get bigger in pregnancy. But they did increase as my baby took more of the first few months. I had a slow start and damaged nipples ( both babies.) Get some medela hydrogel pads. Wear all the time when not feeding, you can wash them and probably get a couple of days out of each one. They are expensive. I cut mine in half, that will depend on your nipple size. Honestly might take 4 days, but it will heal and feed feed feed. Take some painkillers, I know it hurts to latch, but it will ease and feeding increases supply more than pumping will.

@gratitutesmynewgratitute but if the latch won’t improve until she’s stronger surely after 4 days of healing they’ll just get sores again? That’s where I’m at now. I stopped feeding to allow them to heal and 3 feeds later I’m back where I was

Honesty, and I say this in the kindest way and with the best possible intentions, just switch to formula and don’t worry about continuing breast feeding. The breastfeeding agenda in this country has gone too far in terms of the pressure it puts on mums. I say this as someone who breastfed their baby but only because it was easy and convenient. The WHO is behind a lot of the push to breastfeed but a lot of that is based on very different circumstances in developing countries where there are issues around water quality etc. There is no decent peer reviewed research which provides evidence that breast feeding is better for babies in developed countries (other than in the short term slightly reduced risk of ear infections and gastro infections which really aren’t a big deal). Emily Oster has a couple of great books looking at the evidence around a lot of these sorts of dilemmas. Giving your baby formula will have absolutely no negative impact on your baby, in fact it will have a positive one because you will be less stressed and better rested.

Honestly... like another poster said.. get a tight bra on (it will be uncomfortable for a few days) and get forumula.
It is NOT worth the misery. If breast feeding works for you.. fab.. if it doesn't, well we are lucky to have a perfectly viable alternative!

I have four kids.. one of whom I never breast fed, two got it for a couple of weeks and one I hired a pump and expressed for several miserable months as he had disabilities and couldn't feed.

Guess what.. healthy, happy adults now, and no one cares how they were fed as babies. No-one. And it didn't affect their intelligence, or growth or anything (looks at my doctor daughter, my nurse, and my 6 foot men).

My dd2 is expecting her first, and I've said the same to her.. if it works for you.. fabulous.. if it doesn't.. formula is absolutely fine. You need to be relaxed and enjoying your baby, not miserable!

@EggBobbin I assume you have tried multiple different positions? I used to prefer the rugby hold as I found my small human really awkward to try and feed for ages and he was 8lb 5 at birth. I used to lie him on 2-3 thick pillows and then sit beside him and just let him feed.

OP, first of all I am sorry that your husband is not supporting you emotionally. Is this usual for him or is he normally a good guy? Whatever you decide to do you should be able to count on his support.

Are you on Facebook? I would really recommend the group Breastfeeding Younger Babies and Beyond, you could copy and paste your OP onto there (or change some wording if you don't want people to be able to connect it to your Mumsnet account).

As a PP has said, expressing is no indicator of supply - some people are able to express loads and some can't do it for toffee (including me, and I exclusively breastfed our child for six months so I must have been producing plenty!). The poor latch may be down to a small sleepy baby but even so you may find other feeding positions better/easier (rugby hold as mentioned above or Google "laid back breastfeeding").

If you are waiting for latch to improve then you will need to keep up fairly regular pumping and make sure you are using pace feeding for the bottles (a method of bottle feeding that closely mimics breastfeeding to reduce the risk of breast refusal) but remember that you are currently doing twice as much work as easier a breastfeeding or bottle feeding mither because you're doing both, so go easy on yourself.

Her latch will improve every feed, it's using her muscles and different ones to having a bottle, honestly these heal any damage very quickly. I tried everything first time, I absolutely know how hard and painful it is. I wish I'd found them sooner. Second baby ( who's just turned 1 yrs ) I just assumed I'd not have the same issue, but I did. I should have got these before the birth so I was ready.

I go with the saying 'fed is best'! you are a great mother, you have done your very best, your baby has had two weeks of your milk, its a good start for baby, now you have to think about yourself, your other children and your dh. I see no positives in you being in pain, stressed and unhappy, give yourself a break, if breast feeding won't work for you then don't worry, you have access to the best bottles, clean water and formula, millions of babies have formula, it's not the eand of the world - and have a hug from me, a mum and a nana, you need one!

What I'm trying to say is I kept feeding whilst using the Medela hydrogel pads and still healed from bad damage, cracked open raw. I'm not going to lie, latching was quite eye watering when you have damage, but it eases into the feed. It's totally up to you, if you want to carry on bf then give it try, if you prefer to stop all together then that's a perfect choice too. I'm too lazy to get up and make bottle so I carried on bf.

Hey OP, I'm sorry this is so tough for you. Please be gentle with yourself though and also try and accept that if the supply isn't there, it isn't there. The same happened to me and I kept pushing through thinking it was for the best etc. but you know what, the day I conceded and went fully to formula was such a relief for us all. Baby guzzled the first bottle, from me, and we never looked back.